Managing Mother's Guilt

In this episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Luke and Joanne discuss managing mother’s guilt. The feeling that most mother’s have challenges around after birth and the guilt they feel when they feel they are not giving all to their children.  

In the Unpack That segment, Luke and Joanne discuss the vulnerability off the back of the feedback they received from their previous episode on living with difficult decisions. 

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into:

• Understanding mother’s guilt
• What happens to mother’s after giving birth
• Knowing the best strategies for managing guilt 

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Credits:

The Inspiration by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon

Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:04

Life's full of bumps and bruises. I'm Luke Lee Tet, counsellor and life coach, joined by Joanne Lee Tet, mum and HR professional living what seems to be a never-ending roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Each week we discuss strategies to navigate the bumpy road of life.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

With practical approaches to difficult life moments, we bring real life options to the challenges everyday people face.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome to Life's Bumps and Bruises.

SPEAKER_06 0:32

We're glad you're here.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

I'm a lot better in the last few weeks.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

Yeah, sorry to all our listeners. We um we missed a week.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

Yeah, I was I was quite sick and yeah, not really um one that can talk for an hour without coughing.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

So we'll see how we go, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Yeah, oh no, I think I'm a lot better.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

But um, yeah, we will see how we go.

SPEAKER_06 1:09

Yeah, it's been a been a big couple weeks anyway. But um Amelia got sick, then Patrick got sick, and then you got sick, and uh lucky me, I get sick.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

I know, it was like last year we all got gastro except for Luke, and it's like, hang on, Luke, you part of the family or not?

SPEAKER_06 1:24

No, no, different DNA, thank different DNA. Um yeah, so uh yeah, poor Joe been coughing and splatten everywhere. Um still making sure that Patrick keeps up with his chores, though. That's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Yeah, I mean, we're gonna spread the love. Oh, but you know, but during that two weeks you were away with Patrick for about four days, and so I was home by myself familiar, and you know, trying to once again single parenting while you're sick is is really hard. Yeah. Or being sick at any time, you feel like shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

But anyway, yeah, well, on the end on the antibiotics at the moment, which is good. Yeah, drug's good. Um, we um uh yeah, we have had a big couple of weeks, it's been full on. Haven't really had a chance to really sit down with you, and today it's Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_06 2:13

So happy Mother's Day, Joanne.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

Thank you. This is the first time I think we've sat down and spoken, not just today, but in the last few weeks.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

There's probably three, four weeks, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:23

There's just no time, it's just ridiculous. Yeah, I think feel like half the time we're just living together.

SPEAKER_06 2:28

That's a little bit not even. Well, I wake up next to you and that's about it, you know. Um even today, like even today being full of uh it's Mother's Day and being full of sport.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Yeah, I think I've saw you for half an hour in the morning.

SPEAKER_06 2:41

Yeah, and then then yeah, even yesterday. Same thing, like uh Patrick played sport in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

I came down to watch, yeah, and then uh and then I went off to a birthday party and didn't see you until late at night.

SPEAKER_06 2:52

Yeah, yeah, and then by the time I got home yesterday, I was corked. Um and uh well, we had two senior games after the junior game, and yeah, it was done. It was done. I almost fell asleep on the couch last night. Um, or did I fall asleep?

SPEAKER_05 3:10

I think you did. I kind of hit you and I said, I'm gonna bed, you can stay here, or he can come up to you. But you know, actually, you know, it although it was a full-on, kids' birthday parties are always full on for parents, um, whether you're hosting or whether you're just attending. But I caught up with some family there and it was just great. It was uh I can't even describe it. It hanging out with some of my cousins I I I'm close to, and we actually had a few tears together because it's like we have to see each other more because we're all we have left. And it just broke my heart. And the conversation between me and him is like, we know we're busy. He's got three kids, and they they do way more sport than what we do. And I they're telling me that they're scheduled. I'm like, what the hell? Um, and he goes, I know we're busy, but we have to carve our time. We just have to. Um, but it kind of filled my cup hanging out with them for a little bit, and I didn't realise how much I missed it.

SPEAKER_06 4:10

That's great.

SPEAKER_05 4:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:12

Well, that kind of leads into I guess an unpack that thing that we um that we do every week. Uh our last episode, Living with Difficult Decisions, um, really brought our vulnerability. Yeah. Big time.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

Yeah, I mean, we shared a very personal story. And um, a few people that we know that have listened to that have been unsure about do I say something, do I not? But you know, it wasn't it wasn't about that. And a few people have thanked me for sharing that story because once again, it's something that a lot of women or a lot of families, couples don't speak about. Um, and it was a very vulnerable um topic to share.

SPEAKER_06 4:51

Yeah, and you know what? Uh uh the some of the feedback was interesting. Like, um, we'll get into the vulnerability section in a second, but there was uh there was one person who listens in and he's like, uh, you know when you told everyone to fuck off, really? I'm like, yeah. He's like, you didn't, you didn't really need to do that. And uh I said, well, actually, I kind of felt like I did because there were I know that there are some people out there that are pretty negative, and you know, I've had a couple of runnings with a few people with them.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Yeah, they have their own beliefs, yeah. That's okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

And and it is okay, but um, yeah, like I like I said, I've I've had a couple of runnings with people that disagree with decision, and that's why I said what I said. Uh, because I know that some of those people listen. Yeah. And I'm not interested in you trying to tear us down or anything like that, which happens. The idea was to bring awareness that this is a much bigger issue than just us and a decision we make, but it also too was more, it's more about um the you know, it's widespread. It's not it's not just a a couple of people that this is happening to. Yeah, such a larger portion of the population are going through the same thing. And yes, it's a it's it's a topic nobody really wants to talk about to boo, I guess. But also too, the the ridicule around it that you can get from some people. Uh that's why I said what I said. I'm not interested in it. If you want to come out out of snow dramas, it's all good. It will be met with a whole bunch of different stuff and pushback. But um uh because this is the reason why people don't talk about that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 6:35

That's right. That's right, and that's why it actually leads to some pretty serious mental health as well, because you've really got no avenue for it. It's just horrible. Yep. So, you know, it's a it's me and you, it's always a safe place, and what we put out there, we put out there. Um, but it was more for people to realize that, you know, I'm not the only person, or they're not the only person. It is you can talk about it, there is help. Um, but every all of us, we all recognize that there's people that are going to judge, and there's probably people that will be verbal in their judgment. But you know what, you don't need to take it on.

SPEAKER_06 7:10

No.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

That's that that's where they're at, not where you're at.

SPEAKER_06 7:13

Yeah, that's fair. That's a fair message, Joe. Well, there was some messages that come through about um uh how people commended you for your vulnerability and how that sort of shone through in that episode. Uh, because it was a quite in-depth um and half felt peace, I suppose. And uh thank you to everybody who has send messages. Um, how did you go after the the kind of pouring your heart out? How did you go after that?

SPEAKER_05 7:43

Well, I I went okay until I got sick. Um, and the two are completely different. I've just been running myself into the ground working lots of hours. Um, you know, you burn the candle at both ends, it eventually catches up with you. Um so I haven't really had a time to pause and reflect because I've just been even being sick the last two weeks, it really it's not a time where you can reflect on what we discussed.

SPEAKER_06 8:12

I think initially, though, you did.

SPEAKER_05 8:13

I did a little bit. Um I think I was more at peace when by talking about it. Um and I don't know, it's it's such a weird, it's such a weird feeling. But at the same time, a friend of ours sent through an invite for a baby shower. Um, there they would have been a few weeks behind us. So the timing of it is um it's fantastic for them. Absolutely. Absolutely happy, so happy for them. But I'm not in a place where I think I can attend their baby shower. Um, and I've been thinking about it because it's not about me, it's about them. Um, but it's still such an emotional roller coaster. Still have to live with a decision. Yeah. Um, and seeing them and be so joyful is fantastic. Um, and I don't want to be there if I'm in a negative space on that particular day. Um, so you know, it's been good afterwards, but it's still a still a roller coaster. Yeah. You know, there's ups and the downs, and depends on what tide of the bed you wake up on. But you know, it is about being vulnerable. And, you know, everyone has something that they can be vulnerable about, and a everybody puts up walls. Everybody puts up walls and puts on a facade and shows everyone that they're being okay until it gets to the point where they crash and burn.

SPEAKER_06 9:40

And it doesn't matter what the topic is.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

It doesn't matter what the topic is. Yeah, I can guarantee you um everyone puts up a wall for something. For something. And it's funny. Like there's a there's this guy at work, and he's quite funny because obviously I'm a HR and he's a tradee. And he goes, I want to know, I want to get to know you. Who are you? He goes, My mission, my mission is to break HR because they've all got this professional facade on where they've got to put their best fake game face on and be professional. He goes, But I know behind the curtain you are not like that. Nobody's like that. Um, and you know, he to he talks about the things that are behind his walls, and he's a quite a vulnerable, open, open person. And but he also shows so much because there's other walls that he doesn't show. So we've all got them. And you know, I I like how he gets to know the person. And, you know, not everyone's like that, and I get that, but it he it's just refreshing. It's refreshing. Um, because he's quite open about I know there's walls, I know that there's secrets. And if you're willing to share something vulnerable for you, I'm willing to share something vulnerable for me.

SPEAKER_06 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:01

And we can get to know each other on a bit of a deeper basis.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Well, that just shows that uh vulnerability is actually a strength, especially in terms of connection. The I guess the difficult part is is you know, if we're already good friends, then we can go a little deeper and share the the emotion behind the vulnerability, not just the story. I think that that's what you're talking about. There's a lot of people out there that just share the vulnerable story, but not necessarily the emotion behind it. That's when we know we're getting probably a little bit deep. Yeah. And this week uh for baseball uh in the winter here in Melbourne was um mental health week. And I did a video on uh for I don't think it was my best work, but I did it anyway.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

I haven't even looked at it, Luke. No, don't worry, I'll judge it for you.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

100%. Thumbs down, thumbs down on YouTube, just so you know. Um the uh and look, I don't think it was that good, but the idea was about how do we check in with one a mate. And when we check in with mates, they don't necessarily go into that emotional space. No, yeah, and there are reasons for it. One of them is I'm holding back to protect me. Yeah, but also to yeah, but also too, and I think this is a large majority of it, is I hold it back to protect you, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Why?

SPEAKER_06 12:24

Because of the emotional toll it can have on a friend.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

But is somebody actually thinking like that?

SPEAKER_06 12:30

Some people do, man.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

Really?

SPEAKER_06 12:32

You'd be surprised how many of them walk in this office. They walk in here and it's like, oh yeah, how come we're gonna talk to a mate about that stuff? Uh I don't feel comfortable. Why is that? Because I'm trying I don't want to dump my stuff on them. I don't want to be a burden to them.

SPEAKER_07 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:48

And so then that they talk all this burden gain, but you know what? Um, there are probably some friends out there you could do it with.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:57

Not all of them. I wouldn't do it with all of them, but there are some mates out there that, and this is a I guess there's a hierarchy, right? There are friends and then they're mates. Yeah. And I think mates are way deeper than anything else. And I guess they're you call them a mate because they're like a chosen family, so to speak.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

So some of those mates know more about you than your family.

SPEAKER_06 13:17

Yeah, they do because of the the connection and the bond that you have with them.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:22

And you see them more often.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

Yeah, so you can be very selective of who who you um let that guard down to and show that vulnerability to. And then others that it goes straight back up and they see Vasar, they see a aspect of you. They don't actually get to see you.

SPEAKER_06 13:38

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_05 13:39

You know, and you and you have that just in your sporting arena. There's certain people that sport that don't know you at all.

SPEAKER_06 13:47

That's my fault though.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

Yeah, no, you've been burnt a lot.

SPEAKER_06 13:50

I have, but I don't show them this part of me.

SPEAKER_05 13:53

No, but you but it's also about you know, that vulnerability. Do you need to, do you want to?

SPEAKER_06 13:59

I don't want to. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

So that wall is up, and then there's others that that wall's not there, or it's partially there, and others it's completely gone. Um, so we all have it. Yep. We all have it.

SPEAKER_06 14:11

We do.

SPEAKER_05 14:11

And how do you how do you navigate around, you know, is it is it safe? Like what what is it? What's the feeling of, you know, I can let my guard down with somebody?

SPEAKER_06 14:21

Well, I think that's a feeling for the individual.

SPEAKER_05 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:26

Uh and it's really difficult to to sort of bring out. I think if I'm stuck in my head, I'll never feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Well, I'm fucked then.

SPEAKER_06 14:38

Yeah, you are fucked up. I'm completely in my head. I'm sorry, but you're fucked.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah. Well, I marry you, so no.

SPEAKER_06 14:47

Um, I think uh yeah, if you get stuck in your head, then uh it's really hard to receive. So if it's really hard to receive, then I can't open up like that. It just can't. If I'm uh connected to my heart, still got a problem where I may not be open to my heart to guide me and to give and receive freely as I choose. Not just give and receive as you know, throwing out lollies, but it's more um give and receive where I feel comfortable to choose what I give and receive. Um and I don't underestimate uh receiving. You know, I think uh receiving can be a little bit of a contact sport where you know, if we if we look at AFL players or rugby players, we we look at them and we say, okay, well, contact is a funny thing. Not everybody can do contact. Some people get punchy when they're when they're being when they've got contact on them. Some people just can't handle it at all. Um, there's there's select people that can and can do it well. That's why they play at the top, right? I think receiving is very similar to that. I think we all have the capacity to receive love and connection from others, but I don't think um I don't think everybody's open to it.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

No, I don't think a lot of people know how to do it, how to manage it.

SPEAKER_06 16:07

No, I don't think they do either. And it and to be fair, uh, that is individualized again. Yeah, I could talk about it and but it's not really gonna it won't land with everybody. If we talk overarching that stuff that's going on, you know what, it's it won't land because your own individual stuff.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

So yeah, if you want to talk about that, we definitely can. Um send us through an email uh live spunce bruises at gmail.com. Uh but yeah, receiving's a funny thing.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

It is.

unknown 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:46

Okay, so let's move on to our topic today, Jo.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Right. So in in the jest of um Mother's Day, yeah, uh, let's bring up something that I believe most mothers go through. Um and I'm saying I believe because I believe I could flow. Because those those friends of mine or mums that I've spoken to have all gone through this a very similar theme. And the topic today is um how to deal with mother's guilt. Okay. Um so mother's guilt is a very funny thing. And uh I mean, obviously I can share from my own stories. Um being, you know, when when you're on Matt Leave, you're with your baby all the time. Um, but when it's time to go back to work, and you know, going back to work can be very different things. It's not always financial, it's a very good social thing. Um, I remember going back to work and going, oh my God, I could drink a hot coffee coffee, or I could go to the toilet with a door shut. You know, it's the simple things. It wasn't about the financial stuff at all. Um, but the guilt that comes with it is of leaving your baby behind, um, leaving them with someone to care for them, dropping them off at a childcare center where they might be bawling their eyes out and you walking away. Um, and there's there's so much, it's not just about when it when they're babies, um, there's guilt to everything. Like I think it's just, I don't know if it's inherited from your own parents. Um, but then you can see like on the on the opposite side, I know from a Mediterranean um background, their mums and the grandmas are so good at that mother's guilt to getting whatever they want or making their kids or grandkids do exactly what they say because they get their husbands. And their husbands. Um, but it's not guilt, so it's probably more manipulation from that side of things.

SPEAKER_06 18:42

Well, it's both of it.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

Yeah, but um, yeah, what is mother's guilt, Luke? And why do mums feel that?

SPEAKER_06 18:51

What is mother's guilt? Yeah, you know, I'm not a mum, right? I know.

SPEAKER_05 18:54

I'm at before. I mean, you've you've dropped our kids off at childcare before and they're balling their eyes out, and you're like, do I stay? Do I go? Do I keep hugging them? But I really gotta go to work. Um, and you end up walking out and they're still balling their eyes out, and you just feel quite crap. But you gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_06 19:10

It's different for a mum. It's different for a mum. There's a lot of things happening, right? And some of those things don't change. So essentially when you're when you're after you've given birth, basically what happens is the brain prunes and changes the the neuro pathways to focus solely on um, or for the large part, on uh um attachment with your child, right? So that you know the the idea is that around that biologically is to make sure that the child's safe, right? Yep. So we're doing that, right? And then, you know, you go through things, you go through, you know, you however long you can take off, whether that's a year, whether it's six months, whether it's two years, weeks, whatever it is, right? I mean, it could change for everybody's personal situation, but then you get into this two different pulling where because you uh still overly attached to the child because you have to be, you go into this space where it's uh I need to be with my child, and then you go to work, but then there's a pull that way as well. So then you kind of get caught in the middle and you're getting pulled in two different directions. And how do you manage that? It's so difficult. That is so difficult because there's there's a thing I want to do, and there's a thing that I I need to do, and then to two are different I want to go to work, but I need to be with my child. Yeah, and that's a biological chemical thing, you know.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

Yeah, and that that that is a really good example because I I know uh Amelia, they just had Mother's Day things um for school, and it's like I can't be there, I can't in conflict with something I've got to do with work, and oh, the get I felt so guilty because nobody wants, and I remember last year, nobody wants to have that child sit there and not have a parent turn up because you see them and they're just heartbroken in the classrooms when that happens.

SPEAKER_06 21:08

Yeah, it's hard. I don't have an answer for that. I d I don't think there is an answer for that. Yeah, are they heartbroken? No, 100%. I get it. But is there an answer for that?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:21

I don't know. I don't if you're asking me a question around how do you solve that problem, don't ask me, man. I've got no idea. Because I don't think that there is an answer to that one.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

So from a from a mum point of view, I know like I felt guilty about lots of different things. Um but and like I said, with the walls, sometimes with you it doesn't feel like or look like you feel guilty. You just move on, get on, keep going. What's the difference? Is there guilt from your side?

SPEAKER_06 21:52

Well, now we're going into really masculine and feminine energy, aren't we?

SPEAKER_05 21:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 21:57

Geez, you getting making me go all eerie fairy on a Sunday, mother. Day, come on, man.

SPEAKER_05 22:01

Um, well, if you're more available, then we could do it, you know, on different days of the week.

SPEAKER_06 22:06

So, see, the feminine energy. I like to think about it like this, right? Imagine being in a cave, right? Going back to caveman days, right? Being in a cave, and what's the fem, what's the female doing? That's a question, Joe.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Sorry, I'm watching you in your arms.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Do you realize that we're having conversations?

SPEAKER_03 22:27

I do, but I'm just watching you in your arms go all over the place. You're very theatrical.

SPEAKER_06 22:31

Try to use your ears. It's okay. You're allowed to hey hey, you were built with them. You're supposed to use them.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Oh, I turn it off when you talk. It's natural.

SPEAKER_06 22:38

Then why are you do this podcast?

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 22:44

What do you mean, yes, that's right?

SPEAKER_04 22:46

What was your question?

SPEAKER_06 22:47

Oh my god. See, just so everybody can be aware, I'm rap, I'm rapped that that just got recorded. Because this is what it's like every day. Anyway, so Farah. We're in a cave.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Yes, we're in a cave.

SPEAKER_06 23:03

What is the female doing in the cave?

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Trying to ignore the crap out of her husband.

SPEAKER_06 23:10

Hey, you just did really well. You did congratulations, you did awesome.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Okay, we're in the cave. We're freezing our ass off.

SPEAKER_06 23:17

Oh my god, what is the female doing?

SPEAKER_05 23:19

If you've got children, they're looking after the children. What else are they or they're making crap?

SPEAKER_06 23:24

Yeah, and what would they be making? Food and all different types of stuff, right? Then there's an opening to the cave. Where's the man?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

He's the protector.

SPEAKER_06 23:34

Yeah, where's the man? Is what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Maybe he'll be out the front or near the front.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

Yeah, standing at the entrance to the cave, right? As the protector, yeah, like you said. Now, the the thing is here is where what would happen to that female if that male wasn't there?

SPEAKER_05 23:55

She would have to resume that role.

SPEAKER_06 23:57

So because she wouldn't be able to look after the family anymore, right? Soon as the feminine energy has to look up in terms of uh safety, can no longer look after anything else. And then when that happens, there who looks after the children? Who looks after the the day-to-day running of the family, which is generally what mums do, right? They do the general running, the running around. And so then the safety's gone. When the safety's gone, there's no love and connection, right? So when there's no love and connection, then all of a sudden, when they do get an opportunity to sit still, the guilt creeps in. Now, for the man, right? I can tell you now, is there guilt? Yes. I know I'm answering your question a very long-winded way, but yes, there's guilt. There is, but it's logical guilt, it's not emotional guilt, right? So for me, do I feel guilty? Yes. But does my child need to do this thing on their own? That's the logical thing that comes into my head. The answer is yes. Okay, cool. I've got to suck it up, take the hit and move on. Right? I have to. Now, I generally fill my day and my brain with so much stuff. I sort of I guess you could say I move on from the emotional stuff and block it. That doesn't mean that I don't feel it. I absolutely feel it. It's just different. You feel it, you want to talk all the way through it, which is what feminine energies do. You try not to talk about it, right? You try and I I I watch you, you know. I watch you. You try and do what I do, but you can't. Have you noticed that? Yeah, I know you know. Look at the look on your face. Look at it.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Pointing at me.

SPEAKER_06 25:46

Because it's true, you know. You try and do what I do, but you can't. There's a reason for that. You're not built that way. It's okay. I don't have to sit there and talk about it all. I don't. I can I can just move on. But you may need to. So for the mums out there, you know, talking to another female about it would be good. Talking to a man about it, probably not gonna be, you're probably not gonna get what you need, right? To to help with the guilt, to help with the emotional connection to it all. Um, because men be like, uh, uh, oh yeah. Yeah. And then they do this one thing every time. They solve your problem. And you don't want it. You don't want it. They solved the problem. You if you just did this, you'd be all right. No. Well, what would be your response to that, Joe? Just before I answer for you.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

You don't understand.

SPEAKER_06 26:43

Yeah, there you go. Cool. Right? Because they're not. You can't you presented an issue, they solved it, right? There's no guilt in that. I solved the problem. What do you mean? What do you want from me? So, what is we what do women want? They want to be understood. What do men want? They want to be appreciated because we just solved your problem. And like, if we solve the problem, we should like you should see this. If you're if you're a dad out there or male male out there, and you've solved a woman's problem, you know the walk. You got this walk on. Like, I solved that shit. Got your cape on, superman shit, swimming through there.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Yeah, and a woman shaking her head going, you didn't fucking solve a problem. You frigated another problem.

SPEAKER_06 27:24

Did solve the problem. But what was the actual problem? The problem is I just need someone to listen to me. You know what I mean? So it solved the issue that you presented to me, but that's not your issue. You want it to be understood, you want to be heard. So how can I do that?

SPEAKER_07 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:43

Um, and I'll tell you now that that is a big uh uh contributing factor to uh a positive partnership because in relationships we need to be partners. Now, if we're talking about mother's guilt, I'm not talking about the guilt that they inflict to manipulate people, talking about the guilt that they feel when they do the things that um where they feel like they're being pulled in two to two different directions, going to work and looking after children. Um they need to be heard. That's how I know you try and do what I do because you don't talk enough about it.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Do you want me to talk more?

SPEAKER_06 28:20

No. But I'm just highlighting. I really fucked that one.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Are you thinking about what you're saying?

SPEAKER_06 28:30

But it's true. Um, you probably do. You probably do need to understand the emotion you're feeling by talking it out loud.

SPEAKER_05 28:38

Yeah. Understanding the emotion you're feeling. That is a big one by itself.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

It is. We should we could do a whole four or five episodes on just that alone because where there's pain, there is emotion. Always. Always. So uh physical pain. You think about it, where do you feel mother's guilt in your body? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

I I I don't actually know.

SPEAKER_06 29:13

You don't know? No, you don't get a feeling. So think about it. Let's just imagine we've dropped Amelia off at school. Actually, this happens most days when you drop her off. It doesn't happen for me, but when you drop her off at school, she gets all upset.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Oh, it hasn't happened for a while. Hasn't happened for a while.

SPEAKER_06 29:29

Yeah, that then you're making stories up. Anyway, go. So just imagine you're there, you drop her off at you're dropping her off at school, she's upset. Where do you feel that?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

In my heart.

SPEAKER_06 29:43

In your heart. So in your chest. Yeah. Do you what type of pain is it? Is it tension? Is it stabbing pain?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 29:54

Is it a dull pain? Does the heart race?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

It does race. It does race.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I don't know. I can't I don't know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_06 30:07

Just so you know, every time that we talk about a certain body part, this the person you're talking to them with will always touch it. Especially the heart. What did you just do?

SPEAKER_03 30:19

I touched my heart.

SPEAKER_06 30:21

Yes. Right? So you started rubbing the skin on your heart because you're trying to connect with it. Now imagine this. Imagine if you're always connected to your heart, you'd know. You wouldn't need to do that, right? And and so then you know you feel guilt or guilty that I'm leaving my child while she's got tears in her eyes, right? But this is part of being, this is where the man will come in. They'll go, well, that's part of being independent, right? Six-year-olds got to work it out, right? We you there are certain things we can't actually teach uh by talking. They've got to experience, yeah. So would I be feeling guilty? Yep. And I would most likely feel it like just underneath my ribs, right? Right in the center near my sternum. That's where I feel it, like a spinning feeling, right? I'd probably feel it in my eyes, right? Now, the what I would get is tension in my stomach and it would spin a little bit. So there's no real pain, so to say, so to speak, but there is there is a thing there, right? If I don't address that, well, I know I know what I will do, my legs will get tight.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

And how do you address that?

SPEAKER_06 31:31

I have to uh recognize that part of me. If I recognize that part of me, I don't necessarily uh it everything subsides pretty quickly. But unlike you, you don't recognize anything because you're trying to avoid.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

No, but it's also about, you know, it's it's guilt and then it's annoyance because I've got to get to work, and then and then it starts, you know, I just gotta think about next steps, getting getting to work, what's gotta happen, you know, am I late? Am I going straight into a meeting? Blah, blah, blah. So it's it's really just about moving on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_06 32:05

Yeah, the inconvenience of it all. Yeah, that's the highlighted part, but you still feel the the the mother's pain. That really, I think mothers feel in a very different way to the way dads feel. Um that mother's pain, like, oh, my child is upset. But because we live busy lives, we move into the inconvenience of it all. I said then we get angry without recognizing that actually I'm really sad. Yeah. I feel guilty that my child's here and I can't be here for them. Right? Um and I think that that needs to be recognized by mums. It's okay. Yeah, it's okay to feel that way. You're actually hardwired for it. That's why you guys in general will make the best caregivers. The best. I mean, yes, we got people that are pretty fucked up, we've got some stuff going on, but at the end of the day, innately, I'm talking about you guys are the best caregivers for children.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

Yeah. And there'll be lots of people that will push back on that and say, you know, it's it should be both roles.

SPEAKER_06 33:09

Yeah, I mean, we're not hardwired.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Comes back to being the way you were hardwired.

SPEAKER_06 33:14

This is the thing. Oh, I don't really want to talk about inclusion, Joe. But this is the thing about part. Hold on, I'm gonna go a little bit into the inclusion, okay? This is the thing about inclusion, is to me, it's about roles. And who is the best person for the role? Right? When it comes, let's just use our family here, right? When it comes to caregiving, you are the best person for that role. When it comes to teaching, I am the best person for that role. When it comes for understanding, I'm probably the best person for that role. When it comes to um directing and going, okay, these are the things that need to be done, you're the best person for that role. Can you see how if we looked at inclusion only, I'd have to do your role as well as you do mine. Could you imagine how shit that would be?

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:06

No way. That's what that's what I'm just that little bit on. I could go on for ages about inclusion, but that little bit, that's enough. Um, so anyway, go back to guilt. Um, I I think that you're hardwired for it. And I think that's a little difficult. But if we're not able to talk about it freely, uh with men just or or partners, it doesn't even have to be a man, but just a partner or a friend to be able to listen to what you're saying instead of jumping in and adding to the story, because they they do, if they if they add to the story, they're no longer helpful for you. But if uh if you're able to just sit and listen and ask questions to allow you to work it out, you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:56

We've done a five, ten minutes.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

I'll tell you what, it's it's a bloody silly, the silly thing or emotion to have because you know, going back a few episodes ago when we spoke about um navigating the school system when Patrick got attacked. And I remember when you called me, you called me that day and then it happened. Um, and I just I felt so guilty. So guilty that I wasn't there, so guilty that um I'm not there for um drop-offs and pickups because working in the city, it's impossible to do that for school times. Um, guilty that, you know, just as his mum wasn't there to comfort him. And it was something completely outside of our controls, something I couldn't even do, but the guilt was there.

SPEAKER_06 35:37

Yeah, but but I'm trying to remember, you got angry.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

I got extremely angry.

SPEAKER_06 35:44

And that's okay, yeah, but that's where guilt shifted into anger. My guilt shifted into revenge. Yeah. That's legit, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:51

So if you don't deal with your guilt, it shifts.

SPEAKER_06 35:55

Yeah, it turns humidly. Right. So it's no longer a a thing that I need to express. Now I've added layers to it, right? So let's just say um we've seen it. We've seen it here. I'm not gonna give an example of it, but we've seen it here where um you you might have felt guilty about something and then got aggressive at one of us uh because you couldn't manage it. So you you layered it, right? Hey, I've done it too, and I think we're all human, right? We've all done some some level of that where we've moved on from an emotion and stacked it on top of another, you know, and that's probably where it's not helpful.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

And so it's really about recognizing sitting with that emotion so it doesn't stack. Yeah, but that's when it can spiral.

SPEAKER_06 36:40

Yeah. So then when I ask you, where's it in your body, you've got no idea anymore because now we're talking about a different emotion than I'm feeling right now, not the one that caused it. So now we're talking about different points. It's like when then then when I ask somebody about that, I know when I've asked you where do you feel that in your body if the starters you push back at me, you're like, fuck off, not your client, right? And which is fair, all right, but um then you'll pick out a part of the body where that feeling doesn't exist, and it's like, hang on, now we're dealing with a different emotion, and that's now we've got to peel back the layers till we get to that thing. Where instead, if we just express the emotion, recognize that it's there, and for some people, they don't know that that's the emotion that they're feeling, but they know the feeling, the sensation. Yeah, that's okay too, right? Notice where it is in your body and communicate with it. I love this one because I learned this at a um at a training a little while ago. Um when we're doing felt sense work when it comes to me. So when you're um you're feeling the feeling you're experiencing and sitting with it, just sitting with that that sensation in the body.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 37:59

When you're feeling that feeling, you don't have to have answers or anything like that. You don't have to solve it, just sitting with it and allowing yourself to notice where it sits in the body, and then asking yourself, and then just checking in with that part of your body and saying to saying to it, is there any um insights? Is there any um messages? Is there any uh is there anything I need to know from that part of my body? And for some people, like, oh, I'm not sure. That's okay. For a lot of people, like it wants me to do this thing, or it wants me to just relax and let go, whatever it is. And then when you sit with that part of your body and you do the thing that it's asking you to do, it subsides pretty quickly, very quickly. I kind of said that to you before about how I notice that when I feel it, I feel it in my gut. If I don't notice that part there and I don't acknowledge it, it'll move into my legs because I know then I'm getting angry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:58

So um not everyone's connected to themselves like that, though.

SPEAKER_06 39:01

No, they're not, and that's what I'm saying to you. Like, mother's guilt essentially is a feeling that you're hardwired for because you've got to because you're attached to the children in a very different way to the way men are. Not that they don't have attachment, they do, it's just very different. Um, they were they were biologically part, you were one before, as with men, you were we were never one, right? We were the one probably taking you to the doctor. I think that's the only one we were. Yeah. So um uh noticing that, and when you put that into play, we have to recognise that you were wired for guilt because of the attachment. I'm being pulled in different directions all the time because of you know competing priorities, um, and your life and your career and all that. And then you've got this other career of family, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah, the uppay career.

SPEAKER_06 39:57

Yes, yeah, yep. Um, you kind of wipe for it. So if we don't notice it and don't recognize where I feel guilt in my body, it'll transform into something else. We don't want that. We see that all the time. Yeah. So that's a it's a it's a difficult, um it's a difficult thing to sort of go through, I think. I would hate to be a mum, to be honest. It's the toughest job in the world.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

It is a tough gig.

SPEAKER_06 40:26

Oh bad.

SPEAKER_05 40:27

It's a tough gig. It's you know, you're always putting everything above and in front of yourself. And if you were to do something for yourself, you feel guilty for it.

SPEAKER_06 40:39

Yeah, because you're the l you put yourself on the last on the list, which then means that nobody's allowed to care for you. Even though you still need care.

SPEAKER_07 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:49

But then we block it because that's not the rule. The rule is I care for everybody else. I mean, we had a friend with um uh their mother was like that, um, where she did everything. Everything. Uh she's passed away now, but she she used to do everything for them, for that family, and uh lovely woman, beautiful woman. She did a lot for me too. Um, and uh she she wouldn't allow people to care for her at all. She could be sick as a dog, nobody would be allowed to care for her. Nobody could, yeah. It was really interesting. And and then when you look around, even your mum, your mum was like, nobody could care for her. Yeah, she wouldn't let you. Yeah. Whether she wanted you or not. Whether she wanted you to or needed someone to care for her, she still wouldn't let you. Because that's not the rule. I look after you, you don't look after me. Um, and and so, you know, if you're early days into parenthood and you're a mum, get used to receiving care too. Yeah. Because you know, when you think about here, there'll be times when you've cracked it because nobody's cared about you or cared for you. And it's like, well, that's so different to what we would normally do. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's kind of a bit of a shock because you don't allow us to anyway. Really.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

Yeah, so yeah, how do we shift that?

SPEAKER_06 42:20

How do I?

SPEAKER_05 42:21

How do we shift that? It's not just here, but mums in general. How do we shift it?

SPEAKER_06 42:26

Allow people to do things for you. Not physical stuff either, it's just love and care. How do you receive love and care? If you put yourself, I like this idea that if my role as a mum is to care for everybody and nobody's caring for me, how will how long can I care for everybody for? Right? If I put myself last on a list, how many people can I actually support? Not many, and not for a long time. And if you do, you're gonna bring yourself into the crowd. So what if I fulfill my needs, right? Or communicate the needs that I need fulfilled with my partner, communicate them because they don't. You don't, you're the worst at it. You don't communicate your needs, we're supposed to just know.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Yeah, so that's correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:19

Um, and you know, I'm not very good at clairvoyancy or media.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

You're actually pretty good at picking up on a lot of stuff, though.

SPEAKER_06 43:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've got to be switched on the whole time. You know how tiring that is.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

Keep on your toes.

SPEAKER_06 43:30

My toes, dude. I want to be on my back and my bed asleep. I don't know what you're talking about, my toes, mate. So uh if um if you don't communicate your needs, your needs will never get met, you're gonna run yourself into the ground, and then what's the care going to look like with your family or with the things that you want to care for? So, to me, 100% express your needs. This is not just for mums, this is for dads. To express your needs, dads are shit at expressing needs. Yeah. They're really bad at it. Yeah. It's like I've it's almost like they may not think this, but it's uh it's almost like I've got to be the shield, take the hit.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:16

Yeah, nobody's here to listen to me. If we talk about suicide and stuff, that there'd be a big issue there. But we're not expressing our needs, so then our needs are not getting met, and it runs us into the now. Then we can become cranky and whatever, right? So uh yeah, fulfill your needs first. Like you said before, you said on another um episode, could have been the last one, where you said, put your own life mask on first. That was the the message that you get whenever you're in an airplane, put your own life mask on first. Because if you're don't if you don't have oxygen, you can't give oxygen to others. Yeah, you can't care for others. So just make sure nobody, nothing's gonna, as long as nobody's gonna die, right? Look after yourself first. Do the things you need to do, communicate the needs you need fulfilled, then you'll be able to give even more if that's what you want to do. Make sense?

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_06 45:13

That's what I would suggest. That's my hot tip. It's your hot tip, that's my hot tip. Get around it.

SPEAKER_05 45:19

All right. So I think um, from a toolbox perspective, you've kind of gone through a lot of things.

SPEAKER_06 45:25

Yeah, feel feel what you need to feel in your body. Where do you feel an emotion? Not just guilt, but where do you feel it? And then just check in with it. Is there any insights, memories, or anything it needs you to know? You know, check in with it, see what it they want you to do. It'll give you something if you connect with it, and then do what you need to do. It could be something really stupid. Like, I just want you to have a drink of water. It could be something as simple as that. I want you to just sit there and then you'll fight with it. If you live in your head, you'll fight with it. But I can't just sit there for five minutes because I've got X, Y, and Z, I've got this list of things I've got to do. Yep, you can give up five minutes. You can. If I prioritize my needs, I can give it that five minutes. So Felt Sense works really good. It's very, very powerful if you are able to connect to your body.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 46:20

Practice, practice, practice. You're not going to be able to flick a switch. Practice it, and the more insight will come. You actually know what I've been working a lot with lately is uh Tibetan bowls.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:34

That's very interesting how meditative, the meditative state it puts you in. You don't even mean to. And you just go there. Um I thought I'd test it out with some of my clients as well. That's pretty very very powerful, actually, for some of them. They just go into this, oh kind of a little trance. Yeah, but they're like their body just lets go. Um, no farts yet, which is good. Oh but like their bodies just let go and it um it's very uh calming and soothing. So uh, you know, if you're highly strung and you have no time for yourself, obviously don't listen to Tibetan bowls where you're driving, right? But if you can give yourself five, ten, twenty minutes, listen to bet and bowls. That'd be really soothing. Very, very soothing.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

I mean, you just well, just go Google it.

SPEAKER_06 47:31

Yeah, you check them out on uh there's heaps of stuff on YouTube. Get it for free. Um, the difficult part with free YouTube is the ads to kitten sometimes. Yeah. Um, that can throw you out. But uh yeah, just check it out, see if it's up for you, see if it's for you. Best do it with a speaker rather than airpods or uh earbuds, because what we want to do is you want to have it to a level that you're comfortable with, but we want to feel the tones and where does it hit us in the body? And when you do that, I'm telling you, it just lets go first. I don't even know how it works, but um, but it kind of lets the tension go in the body.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

So if you have guilt and it's in your body somewhere and you're not attuned to 100 in your body. Yeah, but you're not attuned to where it is, listening to something like that can let it go for you.

SPEAKER_06 48:23

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And attention tends to you you might you'll most likely find that um the you the one pain issue that most uh mums complain about is having a sore back. Right? Always sore back, and you know why? Because that links to not taking care of your needs. Okay, your needs are not being cared for. So then you hunch forward, hunch forward, hunch forward, can't do it anymore. Okay, yeah. So communicate your needs, things change. And Tibetan bowls are really good for releasing a lot of tension in the body. The sound healing stuff through actually didn't realise how powerful it was until recently.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Okay. Interesting. I'll have a look at it myself.

SPEAKER_06 49:08

Yeah, thank you, Bloyd. All right. Did you reach your goals this week?

SPEAKER_05 49:14

I can't even remember what my goals were.

SPEAKER_06 49:16

Actually, yeah, no, because you've been crude. Oh, yeah, but don't ask me. I'm trying to be responsible for my own goals over here. Be responsible for yours too.

SPEAKER_05 49:27

I remember the goals before that was trying to get memories to type of shoelaces. Um, I remember failing that goal. But I can't remember the goal I said after that. Anyway, it's been a few weeks.

SPEAKER_06 49:39

Well, uh What was your goal? My goal was to get onto that new system.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:45

Nowhere near it.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

Nowhere near it? Still though, like I haven't holding the ball shit, though.

SPEAKER_06 49:50

It's done so much more, like so many other things. Um, and I've just been dragged away from it. Um, and they're more they're they're important stuff. So uh yeah, it's uh that's been tough.

SPEAKER_05 50:03

Yeah. What what has been tough is I I decided to change internet providers.

SPEAKER_06 50:08

Yeah, that was a really good one. That was an interesting note.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

And um, yeah, you you actually did really well for not cracking the shits and losing it completely.

SPEAKER_06 50:15

You know where I was trying to not crack the shits the most? Well, I'm on the phone and you're on the phone to somebody else. I don't even know you're on a phone.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

I was on the phone to the new provider, you're on the phone to the old provider, and it was an absolute fucking shit show that we ended up saying with the old provider, and it was just oh and I'm sorting it out.

SPEAKER_06 50:34

I had it sorted out, and then you're having a crack at me because you know of some little bit that you heard of like yo, stop. I'll tell you what, that was the hardest part. It was like, oh my god, you you want to have this conversation for me? You can if you want. Just shut the fuck up, leave me alone. Let me sort this out. Maybe you there you are cheap and cheap and achieving. Yeah, how you know how hard that is. Please don't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

So that's an achievement for you. So good job.

SPEAKER_06 51:06

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 51:11

Okay, well, something that you achieved.

SPEAKER_06 51:14

I I I actually achieved so much that uh I don't know which one I value the most, to be honest. Um a lot of sports stuff. Uh in amongst that, keeping up with clients and work. Um, trying to also keep up with family and whatever's going on here, which is so difficult.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Oh, you haven't really.

SPEAKER_06 51:38

No, I haven't. It's I haven't been able to be here enough. No, it's just been so busy. Um, so yeah. I don't know. I haven't crashed and burned yet. So it's an achievement. And I didn't crack it with you. I wanted to. It's so frustrating. Don't talk to me all on a phone, please. Oh my god. Anyway, okay. What is an achievement you would like to achieve?

SPEAKER_04 52:08

Would like to achieve or did achieve?

SPEAKER_06 52:10

Yeah, next week.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

A goal for next week. I don't know, they all feel the same. It's all either work-related or what's important to you. Oh, there's lots of things that are important to me.

SPEAKER_06 52:29

Hey, how about this one? How about you go with the the title of our episode? Although you were being sick, you haven't fulfilled your needs.

SPEAKER_04 52:40

Oh, because I I've I've just trying to keep going.

SPEAKER_06 52:43

Yeah. Like I said, you're not me. Do your thing. Oh it's not sustainable. Trust me. Take it from me. It's not sustainable to do a diet.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

No. No, it's not. Um, but I I did get reminded on the weekend um that um I've been trying to catch up with some girlfriends. And we just we it the date keeps moving. It just keeps moving. We don't lock in a date. We lock in a date and then it moves again. And this time we just haven't put in a date. So a goal for me is to sit put that in and stick to it. Yeah, goodbye. Um, because you know, it's the only time that we catch up and we catch up without kids. Um, because we all know that life, especially when you've got kids, is busy. So I need to lock that in. Lock that down. Okay. Make some time.

SPEAKER_06 53:40

Cool. Cool. What will I do? What's something on?

SPEAKER_05 53:46

Take the kids so I can go and lock that down with my friends. What do you mean? Done.

SPEAKER_06 53:51

That's the goal. Didn't you just say that we catch up with our kids?

SPEAKER_04 53:56

No, we don't catch up with the kids.

SPEAKER_06 53:58

Oh. Because it found it sounded weird to me when you said that because kids never go. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

The kids don't come.

SPEAKER_06 54:07

I I know they don't come, but it sounded like that's what you said.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

No, no kids.

SPEAKER_06 54:11

That we catch up with kids.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

No kids.

SPEAKER_06 54:13

Okay. Well, you know I'm gonna take the bloody kids. That's not an achievement for me to work towards. Of course I'm going to take the kids. What's something for me? I don't know. I know. How could how could be how could that be that I my thing to do for me is to do something for you?

SPEAKER_05 54:35

Because that's what a relationship is.

SPEAKER_06 54:37

Oh, now it's a relationship.

SPEAKER_05 54:38

Well, apparently.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

Well, you know what it is? This is the way our relationship works. I get a list of shit I've got to be.

SPEAKER_05 54:45

Patrick gets a list.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

Yeah. And where do you reckon that list ends up? In my bloody pocket.

SPEAKER_05 54:51

Maybe a goal for you is to be around. Because you haven't been around.

SPEAKER_06 54:55

To be around.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

Yeah. I've hardly seen you.

SPEAKER_06 54:59

Yeah, it's a bit that that. It's better like. We've got a lighter week this week.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

Do you?

SPEAKER_06 55:05

I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

That's nice for you.

unknown 55:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:08

Isn't that what you bloody wanted? See how you can't win. This is oh, this is how difficult it is.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

I love you, but I love you, but always got the end on a butt.

SPEAKER_06 55:19

Yeah, let's do. All right, we good?

SPEAKER_05 55:21

I still have no idea what the goals of the achievements are, but we'll just move on.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

Yeah, we're good. Cool. All right. So we do apologize for last week again, but um hey, like, share, and subscribe as best we can. Um, and uh, you know, if you know somebody who needs support with some of the guilt and stuff we discussed today, please reach out through social media or via email lifespumpsbruises at gmail.com. Um, thank you so much, Joe. Uh, I know you've been trying your best not to cough. Uh, so thank you.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Yeah, no worries. It's actually the came.

SPEAKER_06 55:57

Oh, okay, cool. Yep. All right. Well, I'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 56:01

Definitely.

SPEAKER_06 56:02

What do you normally say?

SPEAKER_05 56:03

See what I'm looking at you.

SPEAKER_06 56:05

See what I'm looking at ya. Right, mate. Take care.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

Bye.