Living With Difficult Decisions

In this episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Luke and Joanne discuss a very personal topic that leads into how to live with difficult decisions. This episode covers a serious and real-life decision that Luke and Joanne had to make that opened to working through how to live with the outcome. 

In the Unpack That segment, Luke and Joanne discuss the how overwhelm can turn to burnout and the best ways to manage it. 

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into: 

• Understanding how to make difficult decisions
• How to live with the fall out of decision making
• Knowing the best strategies for connecting to what is right for you

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🎧 New episodes drop every Tuesday — let’s open up about the challenges we all face, one real chat at a time.
 
 

Credits:
 
The Inspiration by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon
 
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
 
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Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/
 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Life's full of bumps and bruises. I'm Luke Lee Tet, counsellor and life coach, joined by Joanne Lee Tet, mum and HR professional living what seems to be a never-ending roller coaster.

SPEAKER_05 0:17

Each week we discuss strategies to navigate the bumpy road of life.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

With practical approaches to difficult life moments, we bring real life options to the challenges everyday people face.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Welcome to Life's Bumps and Bruises.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We're glad you're here. Yep. As always, I'm sitting here with Joanne. How are you doing, Joe?

SPEAKER_04 0:52

I'm good, thank you. Hello, everybody. It's uh been a big couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yeah, it has. It has. Um, just so you know, I've I've been doing a training for the last uh well, I did it from Wednesday to Wednesday, so it was uh eight, eight days.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, it's been it was all on for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, it was full on, man. Like there were big, big days um in the city too, which I'm not overly fond of. Um it's an hour drive in, an hour drive at least an hour drive home.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

Yeah, and and what helped was you know, this time you drove my little I-30 in, and you know, for for viewers and putting a bit of a visual in front of you, it's like Donkey Kong getting into a I-30. Um, but I told him it would be better to park in the city with my I-30 rather than his being huge.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

And it was, but getting in and out of your car is kind of like I got to roll in and roll out. It's weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Oh, he sets you day up well.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I kind of need a push, you know, just someone who pushed me out of your car. Um, every time I go to get in your car, just so it's clear, I hit my head because it's like I can't scrunch my body up that small at that height. It's too small.

SPEAKER_06 1:55

Must be why I love my car. You know, it's it's it's me time because you don't get in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, yeah. There's a reason why I can't get in it. And to be fair, because your car is quite low, um, if I get in it, we're bottoming out, right? Legit.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Not that bad. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I'll tell you, I'll tell you what though, uh, our last um our last episode, we talked about navigating the school system, mainly here at Victoria and Australia, but we had quite a good um uh listening of your audience for that one with some really cool uh feedback. Very, very cool feedback. So thank you everyone who who sent your feedback in. Um, I hope that everyone got something out of it, something useful out of it. Uh and I know that I had a couple of calls around or uh I listened to your episode. Now what do I do?

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Um, so if you're one of those people, please just send an email out to us or or hit us up on socials and we'll we'll get back to you and we'll have a chat.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

It was a massive episode.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

It was a big episode, and you can obviously tell it was something you're very passionate about. Um, and like always, we try to condense it into about an hour. Um, but there's still so much you can talk about. I mean, with every topic, there's so much that we don't go into because we want to give listeners, you know, that time to digest what you're saying. Um yeah, there's just so much.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, there's just heaps more that we could have put in today.

SPEAKER_06 3:25

There always is. Um, but I got some really good feedback that, you know, Pete, some some people listen to um this podcast on their way to work and they leave um smiling and people ask them, what are they smiling at? So just my podcast. They love the banter between us. And I'm like, well, you know what, that's that's normal. It isn't put on for this show at all. Um and those that are that people that know us kind of look at us going, I still don't understand how you two are still married. Yeah, yeah. Because this is all time.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

No, no, no, because you're you know, you you're quite a bully towards me. So that's that's right.

SPEAKER_06 3:54

I am the boss.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

All right, so what do you got for today? You got something to unpack, Joe?

SPEAKER_06 4:01

Uh yeah, I I do. So as as you know, obviously, um you have been training for eight days, or you were training for eight days, and I think it got to day seven, and I took on the responsibility of doing pretty much everything, and I hit a wall.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Single parenting, really.

SPEAKER_06 4:19

I hit a wall, and I really don't understand how people single parent. It's it just blows my mind. But I I hit a wall. So to give a bit of context, um, kids went back to school. Um, usually in our lives, Luke takes the kids to school or Amelia to school, Cap Patrick rides his bike. Um, but he does that and I start early and I usually leave and do pickup. But most of my work is done, and then after I do pickup, I come back and I log back on for about an hour and then I log off. The fact that I had to do drop-offs as well meant that my days, I got up early, um, I've had a coffee, sat down at the desk at home, did some work, then I got up, um, got Amelia ready for school, did her lunch, took her to school, drove in to work, worked for about five hours, then had to leave to go and do school pickup, logged back on, did some work, logged off so I can cook some dinner, logged back on. And so my work day was all over the place. And I'm just very lucky. I'm in a job that I can do that. But it meant that there was no space, no time. And I was extremely overwhelmed. And come Tuesday, I couldn't get out of bed. I attempted to get out of bed. I got one foot on the floor, and when I tried to put the second foot on the floor, it was like it wasn't there. The floor was not there, and I fell straight back into bed. And I'm like, oh, this is weird. This has never happened before. I thought, oh, maybe my leg's just asleep. And I tried to do the same thing, and the same thing happened. And it's like my brain just couldn't function. It just could not function. And so I sat on the edge of the bed, and this is ridiculous because literally, like, it's only a few days. Like single parents do this day in, day out, month after month, year after year. This is just a few days for me. And so I eventually have a shower, I get downstairs, and my my head's spinning. It's absolutely spinning. And you you look at me and you're like, something's all right. And you quickly get me on the table at home. It's got a kinesiology table here, and my head is just spinning, and you're like, just take a day. What was going on, Luke? Unpack that for us because I'm sure there's lots of people out there that are managing lots of different things, and sometimes they have physical reactions to what's happening in their world, and they just have to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, they don't have a choice.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

They don't have a choice. And usually every day, every time I'm sick, I'm still working from home. There is no downtime. I'm a bit of a workaholic, that's my worth ethic. Just keep going. The kids are home at school, uh, sorry, sick from uh home sick. I will keep working while they're homesick. Um, that's just the way I am. So for me to take a day, and I physically couldn't do anything, my head was spinning. I actually went back to bed and slept for another five hours.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

You wouldn't have if I hadn't told you.

SPEAKER_06 7:12

Well, I probably would have tried, I wouldn't have got anything done. But that just doesn't happen. Or I push through and keep going.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah. And to add to that, and this is the key, this is actually the key thing here. The outcome is the spinning, right? But the actual key thing here, indicator, is you've had an issue with your hip, sore knee on the one side of your body. That's the indicator, all right. So that happened, and it happened for, I don't know, how long you've been had that for?

SPEAKER_06 7:47

Yeah, uh quite quite a few months.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Right. And so um, and there's lots of different reasons why that's happened, um, which we won't go into, but the that there is the indicator that you need to stop. And then your body got to a point where I'll make you stop.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Right. And it's literally I could not do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

That's right, yeah. Um, then I was a bit worried about you actually because I ended up coming home early from that uh that day for at the course I was at. And uh there was just just to make sure everything was okay. Uh you were a lot better after a sleep. But the key thing here is, and we did it, we did an episode on burnout uh earlier on, me and Joel.

SPEAKER_06 8:29

Yep. Um but that episode was more linked to work, and you can certainly burn out from work, but how do you deal with life? Life, you need to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, then that this this is a this is the thing. Do you have to? Do we do or do we choose to? You know, and uh you just think about I get that there are times when you you you have to kind of push through, got to go to work and do all these things, right? Uh and I'm not suggesting that everyone should just stop and take days off work, right? I'm not saying that, but think about if you were to look after yourself, how much more work you would actually get done uh if you were to look after, and look, I I'm telling you, I'm I'm a big um culprit for stepping over the line on this one too. Uh, because I I probably do too much uh for my own motivators and my own reasons. Yeah. Uh I'd probably take on way too much than I can manage. Um, and that probably impacts you and the family. Uh, but at the end of the day, if we don't take time for us, your body will stop you. And if we're not listening to our body to begin with, then we miss the signs that we're saying, hey, you are fatigued, you need to take time for you.

SPEAKER_06 9:42

Yeah, is that like the old, you know, um, where they when you're in the aircraft and they're telling you put your own life mask on first, yeah. Before you look after somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yep. Yeah. Well, you think about it. If you didn't put your mask on, how much how supportive are you going to be to your kids? How supportive are you going to be to the people around you? You can only do so much, mate. You can.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

And we know that. You know that. Most everyone knows that, but you don't do it. Yeah. I know I don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Yeah, well, let's use old Mate Joan over here as a good example because we're talking about you.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Um do as I say, not as I do.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

No. Just think about it, right? How many people are listening to this episode that are living in their heads? Right? To just live in their heads and do not live in their body at all. Um there's a few. I know. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a few, because we've spoken to a few of them. But uh, if you live in your head, then you will miss the signs that your body's telling you. And realistically, remember that all pain, um, all pain unless you've been hit by a bus, right? All pain is going to have an emotional component to it. And it's the emotional component that happened first, then it caused pain. Yeah. Because you didn't listen to the first thing, which was the emotional bit. So uh if we live in our heads, we'll we'll look past the emotional side because we're not using and activating the emotional part of the brain. We're using only the the logical side of us, which is think, think, think, think. I can think my way through everything. Good luck with that.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Good luck with that. So for me, uh, take the time for you. That might be one hour. That's huge. Yeah, there's plenty. Um we talked about this uh very briefly in the episode on burnout. Uh, that uh we were talking about me and Joel were talking about um uh oh what's it called? Mildfulness strategies. We'll talk about mindfulness strategies in there. And let me tell you mindfulness strategies all work, they're surface level, a lot of them, but they all work. The problem is is we don't do them uh religiously enough every day. We don't do it enough. And if if you were to do it enough, you would come back into your body. That's really where we want to get to. When I have people in this office, the focus for for the very first few sessions is to educate them on how to get into their body, so that when they come in here, they're already in their body and we can get to the nuts and bolts of everything. Then when they leave here, they can stay in their body and make decisions that feel right, yeah, which is what we're gonna talk about today as well. So uh just come back into your body, listen to the first thing. If the emotion comes in, perfect. If you've got pain, you've already missed a whole bunch of stuff, take the time for you. That might look like you're gonna get a massage, right? Massages are really good. Go and see an osteopath or something like that if you've got serious pain. Um, kinesiologists are really good for that too, because they handle the emotional side of it plus the physical side of it. So um, yeah, I would definitely make sure that religiously you take time for you, whatever capacity you can. If that's half an hour, half an hour. That's an hour, an hour. Beautiful. Do it daily. Yeah. As best as you can.

SPEAKER_06 13:17

Right. And for those that um missed the last episode, we're going back to episode eight between uh Joel and Luke had a discussion from and it was called From Overwhelm to Burnout, stress at work unpacked. So um really good things in there and good tips, and I think there's a toolbox as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 13:33

Um to managing burnout.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, yeah, it was good. It was a good little episode. Um Joel from memory used his um his work experience, his experience, yeah, his life experience to um elicit that conversation, which was good. It was good. So please just get into your body, step back, take time, Joanne. Yes, take time, yeah, yeah. Um, and if that looked like a snooze for uh for a couple of hours, good, beautiful, right? Because then if you do that, the time that you take off work, which is not happening for you, um, because you're you're Maltese, you don't take time off anything. No, right? Um yeah, man. Fly around. So uh the time that you take in one lump sum or will be better than taking eight days off in a month. Yeah. Or taking half an hour and an hour a day will eliminate a lot of those days that you would need to take off because you're burnt out. Yeah. And I get we all have kids and stuff like that, and nobody wants to get up out of bed earlier. But I can tell you, if we are prioritizing our own needs, then we can express them in that time. And if we're prioritize prioritizing our needs, then we'll go and take care of it.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Can't look after other people's needs if you don't look after yours, which is that's right. I I I kill myself on.

SPEAKER_06 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

But it's something that we are all always working with.

SPEAKER_06 15:02

Yeah, something that I need to be better at.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Hmm. We all do, I think. Yeah, and those that are living your head, if you are if you live solely in your head, um, please go and take that time. Please prioritize it. Yeah. All right. So what are we talking about today, Joe?

SPEAKER_06 15:22

So today we will be talking about how to live with difficult decisions.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

How to live with difficult decisions. How did that come about?

SPEAKER_06 15:30

Sorry, this is a really big thing for us that we haven't shared with a lot of people. Um, and it's the decision that I needed to make. And you know, I thought I'd dealt with it, but I'm still struggling to deal with it. Okay. So late last year, um it was a very big surprise to find out that I was pregnant. And um we found out quite late in the first trimester because I ignored all the signs, but I thought, you know, I'm actually over the hill and starting um menopause and the rest of it, which I found out that it's actually quite common for women over 40 to get pregnant and miss the signs because your body's trying to get rid of all these eggs. Um, so it's quite common for people over 40 to actually get pregnant when they're not trying. So um, yes. So we found out that we were pregnant and I needed to make a decision. And you were no help because you were you allowed me to make the decision. My body, you know, it's up to me what I wanted to do. Um, yes, surprise, good surprise, bad surprise, take it as you will, but surprise, none the same. I was really shocked. And it took me a while to get past the shock to realize what the hell am I going to do? And being in HR, it's like, okay, pros and cons. Pros and cons. Because it wasn't so simple. It wasn't a simple decision. And the reason it wasn't a simple decision is because my last pregnancy, my uterus taught, and I had some really complicated, really big complications, massive ones. Massive complications, a lot of blood loss. Um, and to the fact where I I passed out, um, and I still have scarring, and they told us that we probably shouldn't have more children. And so it came down to a health thing. And do I put my life and the baby's life at risk or not to go through with the pregnancy. And the health system I don't really think I got what I needed out of the health system to help me make a decision.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

No. Agree.

SPEAKER_06 17:53

Um and you allowed me to make the decision.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I was a sounding board for that.

SPEAKER_06 18:00

You were a sounding board, and you wrote you helped remind me of what the last one was like. Because I know a lot of mums out there, you know, you f you kind of forget. You you remember the good times, you remember the baby coming out, and you hold the baby, but you forget how difficult and how hard it is in the recovery. You forget all that until you're going through it again. Um, so you were a reminder, and you said, shit, Joe, yeah, you're pretty sick last time. It was really scary for you last time.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Well, for everybody who was involved.

SPEAKER_06 18:31

Yes, for everyone that was involved. Um, and so I I had to sit with it for a bit. Um, and I'm still trying to come to terms with the decision to not go through with that pregnancy. Um, and we'll use a term, it was an abortion.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:48

Um, and it was a chosen abortion because of, and you know, the reasons that the reasons why doesn't matter because it was still a choice, it was still a choice. But for me, it was a health reason. Because, you know, when I we speak to the doctor, we spoke to the doctor at the time when we're going through it and it's like, you know, you sure you want to go through with this, what are the reasons? And you explain it. And to me, it came down to I don't want to leave my children behind. Because that could happen because of how emergent the last one was, and the blood loss and the recommendation and and the scarring could easily rupture again. Yes. So it came down to it. I've got two children that I don't want to leave. And although there's a there's a chance of that not happening, there's also a very big chance of it happening.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

The percentages are very, very high.

SPEAKER_06 19:42

It is, and I know that, you know, working in healthcare, there's lots of things that go wrong. And, you know, those one percenters or one in a thousand or one in ten thousand, they happen and you never think it's gonna happen to you.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

And so when you do have something there, the chances go up. And so I made that decision. And I know there's a lot of people out there that will judge on that decision because life is precious and you know God doesn't give you what you can't handle, and I'm not religious in any way. But the more people I've opened up to, the more I've realized that this is a subject that a lot of women struggle to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

But it's so common, it is so common.

SPEAKER_06 20:31

So there's been a few people that I've spoken about, I've spoken to, and I saw, and and it's unreal that I never would have picked up on it before, but there's been a few women that I've just seen that something's not right, and I've asked them and I've shared my story, and then they go, the same thing happened to me, and I'm struggling, and it's something that I've I've haven't spoken to anybody about this apart from the doctor because it's such a taboo subject. And when I ask them, they say the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I don't want to be judged on the choice that I made for myself, which is why I wasn't sure if you would wanted to we we literally talked about this stuff before we did this episode, right? And I I I thought you weren't going there and you jumped both feet in.

SPEAKER_06 21:29

Because it's because of the others that I've spoken to, and you know, it is something very personal. And and the friends of ours that hear this episode is it it it's not like I don't want their sympathy, it's not about sympathies, it's not about you know, I also don't want their judgment because I don't think there's nothing to judge here. It's like I said, my body, my choice. We're lucky that we're in a country that we can do that. Um, very, very lucky. Um, but it's also about having that space place. For others that don't feel they have anyone to talk to. And I was heartbroken when a few of those women spoke to me about their story and they've had no one to speak to.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:11

Um, because although they're comfortable with their decision, just like me, I'm comfortable with this decision, I still have to live with it, and I'm struggling to live with it. Because it's not something I ever thought that we would go through, and it's not something I would have chosen if that health factor was not there. And I'm really struggling with that.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 22:35

So, you know, how do people live with their difficult decisions? Because you know, you spoke to before about your body will then come up with these things to show you that something's not right. You need to stop, you need to pause, you need to reflect. Yeah, but most of the time, Mr. Science, we keep we keep pushing through. I am not the only person.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

No.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

I have the tool to now talk about it in a safe place. And I'm sure there'll be people throwing mud because that's what people do. To be fair, to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I just want to say this though. Like I know that there were friends of ours that had gone through a very similar situation, and they had to deal with uh protesters, pro-life protesters standing outside the hospital at the time, and uh copped a whole lot of crap from them. And then when they came back out, excuse me, they they copped it again.

SPEAKER_06 23:30

Um and it's very different now. They went through a time that it was like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah, it was still can be a little bit like that, but not here, more so overseas in some countries.

SPEAKER_06 23:40

Horrible. Um these decisions aren't made lightly.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

And to be fair, like if someone's got an issue with that, um it's my podcast, like go fuck yourself. To be fair, go fuck yourself. Like, I don't care. So, you know what? Keep your opinion to yourself. I don't care. If you've got an opinion, good on you, good on you. I'm assuming you never lived through it, but that's okay. Um and maybe you did, and you feel like this was the right outcome for you. Excellent, fantastic, but for a lot of people it's not, for a very large majority of people, it's not. Uh, and the more people we talk to, um, the more that this stuff comes up with us.

SPEAKER_06 24:25

And yeah, um what I was actually really disappointed in this whole system was that dad does not get backed in at all. And I know that there's a lot of women that go through this process alone. Um, and for whatever reason, and my hardest thing was when I went in to have the procedure, you actually hear all the babies being born.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, that's pretty fucked.

SPEAKER_06 24:55

And it really does something to your head because you're sitting here with a decision that you've just made, that you're about to go through, and you're hearing babies be born. And so it's like, I can't do this. I can't do this. I forget about all the reasons why I decided to go through it. Because you hear the baby cry and you remember having that baby, what that meant, and the joy that came with it. Or for whatever reason you're making the decision, you're hearing that, all the other women going through it, or there was people with there with their husbands. So they some of the people, it wasn't their choice. It was a miscarriage that they didn't need to go through that whole process, are hearing the babies being born. Like what a horrible process. Yeah, what a horrible process. But for us, like this was still a choice, it was still a choice, and I got asked a lot of questions and from a mental health side and blah, blah, blah. But you never got factored in.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Oh, I did. I did as a perpetrator. Yeah, absolutely it did. It was a really difficult process.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

Yeah, more like you know, I'm not being colluded, it was my decision, there's no domestic violence, but there's no, you know, hey, are you okay with are you okay? Because this affects you as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, yes. Uh, but I think the primary care has to go to to the mum.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

100% it does.

SPEAKER_06 26:13

Because it's a big procedure as a lot, and the hormones are all over the place. But, you know, it's affects you too.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

It does. But I I really appreciate you having the courage to talk about this, to be honest with you. Uh, because I didn't think you were going to. I thought we were going in a different direction, and I appreciate you talking about it. Uh, but I think that uh some of the questions they ask, I think personally, that they weren't really about care for you. It was box ticking to protect themselves. And that that part I didn't like. Um the process for most dads, I would imagine, would be very similar to mine, um, which was not good at all. I felt like I was a perpetrator, that I was forcing you to have this. Um, but if we backtrack and we go back to the decision making, because we could talk about how shit the health system is.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Healthcare system is until the cows come home.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

But if we go back to decision making, how this worked really was. Uh we kind of joked about it. And I said, uh, maybe Preg is and you have the the test. Oh, yep, you are. Wow, okay. And then the conversation goes on about how you know we go to the doctor first, you go to the doctor, get your blood tests, and all that sort of stuff, and then we we're having this conversation about it. And Joanne's generally on big decisions, you would I would say that you throw that decision making to me.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Yep. I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yep, yep. And in this case, uh, I remember saying something along the lines of Joe, I can't I can't chime in at this one. I can't. And the reason why I couldn't was because no matter what I say, it will influence your decision making. Yeah. So I tried my best to stay back from that because as a as a dad in this situation, I would say, uh, if I sway the decision-making process in any way and it doesn't work out the way you want it, you blame me. That's the way I see it. Okay. And uh I think that to a degree, there was a high probability that could happen. Very high probability. Um, because essentially, as soon as I chime in and I sway that decision for you, you might make the decision for me. That ain't good. Yeah. You've got to make a decision for yourself. Uh and whatever feels right is right. That's the honest truth.

SPEAKER_06 28:58

And it's so hard to know what is right for you and what's being influenced by others.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

Because at the time, there's other people around us announcing that they're having a baby, or we know people that are trying for a baby. And it's kind of like, well, we've been gifted one. And I'm making a decision whether or not we should keep it. So to me, it's those those other things that people struggle. And I don't, like I said, it was in your head, completely in your head. And because to me, I'm not making a decision if it was late in the game. If it was late in the game, absolutely not. Um, but it was within coming to the end of that 12-week process. And I wanted to make it quickly. I wanted to make a decision quickly, but at the same time. It wasn't done that quick. No, it wasn't. It wasn't done that quick, but it felt quick. It felt like a blink of the eye, and there was four weeks gone. And, you know, it's a big decision. It's such a big decision.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Well, how'd you come to the end of that? How did you come up with the answer for that?

SPEAKER_06 30:14

Well, I was actually already shopping for stuff and fitting out a room, and so I I had I had a plan that we're going through with it. And Amelia wanted to look at her baby photos, and we'll go we're scrolling through the baby photos um everyone every now and again. And I saw the first photo photo of me holding her, and I was fucked.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah, you were.

SPEAKER_06 30:37

I was fucked. I mean, I just lost two litres of my blood. Um, and you know, I was I was out of it, completely out of it. I saw that photo and it just all came back to me about how bad it actually was, and it came back to me of what they said, and then you you said something about just remember what what the births were like because Patrick was a complication as well. Um, Amelia wasn't even still a complication. Well, yes, he is, but his birth was a complication. Amelia's was even worse. Um, and so you know, you didn't have to say it, and it's just like, you know, I was already looking at childcare in the area because we had recently moved. I don't know any childcare in the area, you know, what's the waiting list? So I was 100 committed, 100% committed to having the baby. And then, you know, it's just the reality hit me of, but what if? And the hospital obviously doesn't indicate or doctors don't indicate one way or another, because you know, they track it as you progress.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

And to me, that's too late. Yep. That's too late. I'm not making a decision later later on to terminate a perfectly healthy baby. I'm not. So I needed to make the decision. And in that moment, when I finally realized, shit, my wife's on the line, the kids could lose their mum, you could lose me. I remember what you were like when I came out. And, you know, obviously a CSA, they they tell you it's like 45 minutes. Took you ages to get in there because they couldn't get the needle in your back properly. And by that stage, I'd already fully dilated, so Amelia was going down as they're trying to pull her back up, and that's how my uterus tore. And then I was in there for what another two hours afterwards while I was repairing it, and I was like, transfusions and the rest of it. So it was I was completely out of it, and they didn't give you any updates at all during the whole process. And you were like a cage lion.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, I was, man.

SPEAKER_06 32:55

I think you barked at one point, but um that's a dog, eat different animals. But um, you know, that whole process was really shit, and it just hit me, and it was actually a really easy decision to make. As soon as I remembered it, it was a really easy decision. But I'm struggling to live with that decision.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, so let's just go to the decision-making process first, okay? We'll talk about living with it in a minute. But I think the decision-making process is actually a real simple one that we complicate.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Yeah, and I did. I believe I did.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

You you did for your needs, but the uh the ultimately, ultimately, when we are separated and we fragment ourselves between mind and body, it's so hard to make decisions because you tell yourself stories about stuff and then you stack stuff, and then all of a sudden you've created this whole picture of what it should or shouldn't be like, regardless of whether it's an abortion or what are we having for dinner. It doesn't matter what decision is, it's still the same process. And if we get stuck with, and ultimately in this case, which happens actually quite a lot, you you factor in everybody else in your decision. And I'm not just talking about what we're talking about here, talking about in general. Yeah, you factor in everybody else, which means your needs are last. That's not helpful. But if we're coming from our own needs and our own place within ourselves, we know what the answer is. We do, but we make it hard. We do we we over analyze it, and then we stack stories, and then we get stuck between two stories and two pitches, and then we go, well, what do we do now? I feel like I'm trapped and stuck in between it. And as soon as we're able to get people back into their body, the decision's made like that, like ultra fast. It's like, oh, this was the decision the whole time, yet not, boom, we're gone. Um, and I've had moments of that myself too, but uh, I would say that's where 90% of the problem is. Yeah. Is we're stuck in our head. We're not listening to what our body's saying. How does it feel? What's the motivator behind making the decision in the first place? And if we think about this decision, we would say, well, it's health related, right? There is a lot on the line here. This isn't gonna cost me a hundred bucks, this is gonna cost my life. What's that worth? You can't put a dollar on that. And when did money and um and all these other materialistic things, when did that become more um uh more of value than someone's life? So, and I and I get that we're talking about the life of an unborn child as well, I get that, but there is a lot that goes into it. So for me, I tried to step away from that decision because I didn't want to sway you in any way. And I like I said to you, I will respect whatever you want to do, I'll follow you. 100%. It was never up for me to make that decision, I would never do it. And I don't and you hated me for it, or um, cracked the bab with me.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

And even now, like I know it's like done and dusted, and we're got six months past, you still don't tell me what your decision was.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I told you today.

SPEAKER_06 36:27

Told you. Yeah, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

I said uh because look, we were discussing this um and before this this recording, and you were questioning the decision in some way, and I remember just saying to you, you made the right decision. Well, that's all I wanted from you, Luke. Yeah, I know, it's okay. I always thought you did, and if you had the baby, I'm telling you now, I would have said, you made the right decision.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

But I'm telling you now, sitting on the fence, not in your bets.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

It's not, it's not sitting on the fence, it's me backing you. Me backing your decision. That's it. Is there a wrong decision here? I don't know if there is a wrong decision here. It's only the one that you made, and that was the right one. And I feel for anybody to have to make that decision at all.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

But it was the right one.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

It's funny, you you watch all these medical shows where you know we watch way too many. We well I love the medical shows. And you know, a lot of them I feel like got the house right now. I know, and um, you know, you sit there and you and you're like, God, I can never imagine being in that position and having to make that decision. Or why the hell would you put um you know, losing your life over having the baby, or you know, things like that. And it's just crazy. And, you know, now it's like you can have that opinion, but you until you're there, you've got no idea until what decision you're actually going to make.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

100%.

SPEAKER_06 38:01

Yeah. So, you know, reflection is you know, it's like you know, throwing stones in in glass houses or whatever it's called.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Throwing well so not scripted.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Well, I think I think so. Now living with the decision, I think you're doing really well, personally.

SPEAKER_06 38:30

I think I'm falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

No, you feel as though you're falling apart. Okay, that's different to actually falling apart. I feel like that. That's okay. You can feel that way, and we can talk about that. We won't do that on there, but we can do we can talk about that. The feeling is really the motivator to why your hip is sore, right? I feel like I'm falling apart. Well, your hip's kind of falling apart, so's your knee, right? Yeah, so um we can understand that from a different perspective, but ultimately you can go through pros and cons about all this type of stuff, and how am I going to live with this and all that sort of stuff? But ultimately, as soon as you get back into your body, you're gonna be okay. And I think that in this circumstances, I remember saying this to you when we first uh when we had to go through it on that day, um, because it was a difficult day, uh, not to try and make about me, but just from a dad perspective, the story kind of needs to be told because it doesn't get told.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

The I remember they separated us quite a fair bit.

SPEAKER_06 39:41

Yeah, it's like in seriegation.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

100%. And then when I went I went in there with you.

SPEAKER_06 39:47

No, first I went in and I said, Can you come in? They're like, nope.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah, they absolutely push you. But then when I came later, when I was allowed to come in there with you, um, and we're talking with the doctor, and you had to go and do something on a weed test or something. Um, and I'm sitting there and she's flogging me. Are you sure you're not putting her under pressure? I go, bitch, I'm about to put you under pressure. Fuck off. I go, I'm if with her. I'm I'm I'm I'm in this with her, you know. Um, I love my wife. I'm never gonna tell her she has to do anything. We're all good, man. Like, and she's giving it to me a little bit. And then I just laughed. And she laughed, it was good in the end.

SPEAKER_06 40:26

Yeah, you're telling me to do shit all the time.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Like, oh, like what?

SPEAKER_06 40:30

Make dinner. Go wash the clothes, bitch.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Oh, turn it up, turn it right up. No way. Well, I'll I'll wake up next to my old fella if I start talking like that, man. No way, bro. Um, but I uh I remember you going in, and I wasn't allowed to go with you, they wouldn't let me. Uh and so I'm pacing around at the front of the hospital all day. All day. And I was worried, you know, we were texting and backwards and forwards, and then there came to a time where you you didn't respond. So I'm like, I'm assuming you went in. Uh and and that was a really long day to be separate from such a big thing. And the hospital weren't very helpful in that for the dad, for the for the the partner at all, at all. And I don't know, I remember coming back because they gave me a call and said, Oh, you know, your wife will be out in about half an hour or something. So I go back into the waiting room, I'm just sitting around the waiting room, and I can just see all these blokes just sitting there, all right? Nobody wanted to look at each other, yeah. And it was uh it was quite an awkward energy in the room. Uh, and then one by one, ladies came out, they go home with their with their partners, and I'm like, you're like one of the last ones to come out, and I and I'm like, go over to the nurse at the desk, like, yo. Who's my wife, ma'am? And she's like, What's your name of your wife? Bro, we just spoke about this about bloody an hour ago. My wife's name's Joanne. You're gonna you all need to tell me what's going on. And she's like, Oh, I'm sure everything's all right. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to hear, I'm sure. You're gonna go and you're gonna make sure. And she's looking at me, she's like, Okay, no problems.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

No, we're being a bit aggressive there, Link.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Yeah, no, fuck that. You tell me what's going on with my wife, mate.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Aggressive there.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

We've just done it myself. But anyway, so she's so so that's not right. That's not right. It's been a long day, anyway. So she so she goes off, she finds out, she checks in, obviously. Then she came out. Oh, she's about five, ten minutes out. Everything went well, everything's okay. Oh, thank you very much, appreciate it. So I'm just sitting there waiting. Then you come out, and I'm looking at you, I'm like, and you're doing everything you can to keep your shit together. Can see it, and I'm like, oh fuck. Okay, okay, this is gonna be a big one, right? I already knew it was, but the look on your face meant it was gonna be big. But you do a lot, you do the same thing that a lot of people do. We'll push it to the side, yeah, and we'll get on with it.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Yep, just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah, and then the body says to you, nope, you haven't resolved that. We need to sit, we need to sit with this. And to me personally, I think given the circumstances, it's okay for you to take time for you and cry it out. Sit with it, do whatever it is that you need to do, listening to your body and tell them what your body listen to what your body's telling you to do.

SPEAKER_06 43:52

See, and I I thought I thought in this particular instance, I thought that occurred.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Um no, it didn't. When did you do that?

SPEAKER_06 44:00

Oh, and the few days afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

I think you're telling Paul Pies.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

Because I was an emotional mess.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Oh, you still are. Well, no, you're not you're not that bad.

SPEAKER_06 44:08

Um, and then you know, that's just your hormones trying to write themselves. And I was a mess for a few weeks.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Um Yeah, but you didn't sit with it.

SPEAKER_06 44:17

Yes, because I just push it aside and kept going.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, and that's that's that's when you find how do I live with the decision comes up.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Because you didn't sit with it, right? And you can sit with it at any time, whenever it's ready for you and appropriate for you. It's okay.

SPEAKER_06 44:34

And it's the same, like, and this is a little bit off topic, but that is it, it's the same with grief, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 44:41

Because you need to deal with your grief, otherwise it butt you in the ass later.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Well, for me, the biggest thing for me had on that day was I knew what I needed, but we were at different levels, obviously, different points, because I didn't go through with the procedure you did.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

And I didn't give up a child you did. It was a lot deeper for you, obviously. Plus, the the chemical imbalances and stuff that happens from a hormonal perspective inside the body, it's not happening to me, it's happening to you.

SPEAKER_05 45:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

And so I wanted to name the child, and I wanted to uh celebrate it uh year every year, bit like a birthday. And I know that you weren't ready for that, and it was okay. Um and I remember you getting pretty nasty, or not really nasty, but pretty short. Yeah, short, short's probably a good word, yeah, it's short about it. I'm like, okay, that's okay. And then you saw in my calendar one day. Why do you have I'm not gonna tell anybody the name that we chose, but you you're like, what's this in your calendar? And I'm like, well, that's the day I'm gonna celebrate that. And then you you're like, I thought we weren't gonna do it. No, we're not gonna do it, I am. And you just looked at me funny, and like, it's okay, because that's what I need. Yeah, because that's how I live with it. I'm not gonna look at it like uh the day that somebody died, gonna look at it like the day we could have had a child, and I want to celebrate it like I would a child was alive. That's the way I'm going to live with it. Because it's what I need, and I know it, right? To me, I had a chance to sit with it, and I did. I took every minute of it, and it was a bit of a grieving process, but at the same time, it was a bit of a um it's okay, it is what it is. You have to do what you've got to do to survive the space we're in, yeah. And survival in this case was going to be a significant um go toss of the coin, so to speak. Maybe good, maybe not so good. Yeah, sometimes a good, sometimes. All right. That's kind of what it was gonna be like, and that that coin could have fallen on anyway. So um it is what it is. So living with decision is about listening to what it is you need. What are your needs? If you don't sit with yourself for long enough, and if you don't connect with the the inner child, so to speak, within you, right, then how would you ever bloody know? Your brain doesn't know that. Your brain is designed to prove you right, it's also designed to keep you safe. Number one.

SPEAKER_06 47:40

My brain is designed to prove you wrong.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Well, well, how often do you actually prove me wrong, though?

SPEAKER_06 47:46

Oh, it's still working.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Yeah, of a work in progress, see. So um, that's that would be my take on it. So, in any decision, could even be like buyers from Morse, right? Where I we buy a house and then oh, can we really afford it? Yeah, right. Uh, I think that when you can get yourself into a space where you can sit still with the decision, accept the decision has been made, and then ask the question, now what? It'll be okay. But if I sit there and just mull over it and I'm gonna get angry, I'm gonna get stuck, I'm gonna feel like I can't move, the expectations of myself are gonna go higher because I can't move, but I need to move.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

And then all these things are just gonna bog me down. You feel like you're walking around with concrete shoes to me, and that's not helpful, obviously, but um uh, but it can go as simple as if I sit with it, I can accept the decisions being made. Now what? And if I focus on the now what, then what you'll find is, and and I know that some people don't quite see it this way. Some people see it as God, some people see it as universe, some people see it as spirit, whichever way you want to look at it. I'm just gonna use the word universe. The universe will start to align for things. Will it happen straight away? No, but it can happen, and it I'm telling you, for the most part, it happens.

SPEAKER_06 49:21

And you and you sometimes see people spiral, and then they start saying negative in everything after making a decision, or if something doesn't go their way. Yeah. Um, so how do we how do we help that?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

You got to change the story because that's what started it. The story you, the meaning you attach to it, yep, to the decision itself. And so then, you know, you might have thoughts of, hey, I'm not good enough to make decisions, I'm I'm lousy at making decisions, uh, I just don't know what's in the best interest of everybody. Um, and listen to the word I'm using everybody, when you should be just about you. Yeah. Um, because if it's good for you, good for others, then it will be good for the greater good. So um, there's a whole bunch of different ways you can look at it that way with the decisions. But as soon as you have assigned that negative meaning to it, you'll go and find negative ways to affirm what you did, right? Instead of looking for positive things to affirm the decision you made because the meaning you set you assigned to it, then the stories start, right? And the story's a killer because that story and that picture gets so big and bright, that's all you see. And then you go and look around, and you then you the connection you have with other people and relationships you have, they start to reflect back the same thing that you're reflecting out. And then you're like, see, I told you I'm not good enough. See, I told you people don't love me. See, I see, I see, I see, I see. Instead of um, if we were to come back into our body, we would notice there is no story, it doesn't actually exist until you make it happen. So, and the body doesn't create stories, the brain does, right? You're the way you view the the lenses that you wear and the way you view the world, that's what where it creates the story. So take the glasses off, sit in in your body.

SPEAKER_06 51:17

So, what about those that have to make a difficult decision about putting um a parent in a home? So they finally get to a decision, which is really hard because nobody actually wants to put their parents in a home.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

No, they don't.

SPEAKER_06 51:31

And it's a decision that has to keep coming up and keep being revisited as things then happen for that parent, the health declines, the facility is shit, they think the care is shit or whatever. How do they because they they have to make decisions for somebody else? It's not a decision for them. Sometimes it is because they can no longer look after that person. How do you help those people?

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Well, it all depends on whether the parent is lucid enough to have those conversations. Uh, that'd be number one, because what do they want, right? But if they can't and they're incapacitated, they probably should be in 24-hour care. Um, NDIS will help out a lot now, which is different. That gives um, and there is an aged care component to the NOS, um, which is good. But I think I think if you listen to, if you listen to anybody who's making decisions, they circle around back to the same bloody decision they started with. What's the first thing that comes up? The first thing that comes up is to put them in a home. Cool. Get that that creates grief for you. I understand that. Yeah, but that's your grief. You can deal with that on your own with some with support, whatever it is you need, but the grief can't come into the decision. And a lot of the time it does. So the grief and the guilt comes in.

SPEAKER_06 53:00

Yeah, it's a lot of it's and I think you hit it, it's a lot of guilt because it might be when the parent was lucid, they would say, Don't put me in a home. I don't want to go in a home.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

What's in the best interest? Right.

SPEAKER_06 53:12

I mean because not just about their health anymore, it's also yours. Because it takes a toll on your health to look after them.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Yeah, yeah. Um, but at the same time, let's just say you stayed home and you looked after them. How are you gonna eat? How are you gonna look after yourself? Hey, it that your life is taken away from you then. And if there is opportunity for that to for somebody to go into an aged care sort of facility or retirement village or something like that, and they need significant care, and you can't afford it, and there is an option, the really the question is um, what is what do I feel is the right thing for me right now? What is the right thing here? What do I feel? Make sure you use that language, not what is, but what do I feel is those is the right answer here.

SPEAKER_06 54:07

Do you think it's important that they sound it off somebody else and get out of their head?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah, you can do that, but then the the difficult part is who you're doing that with because you're gonna get their opinion. Their opinion don't fucking matter. Because that's not a soundboard. If I get if somebody gives you an opinion, you're not a soundboard anymore.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

You know? Um, that you're not somebody who's sitting there and asking questions around the issue that's coming up so we can explore options. If they're giving you an opinion, they're not the right person. Um, and a lot of the time, even healthcare professionals they'll go and give you an opinion, their professional opinion. And that's okay. We need that, right? But who's gonna be the soundboard for us to have that conversation? So for me, I'm framing it. So if I need somebody, and I've got a friend that I do this with too, actually, I've got a couple of them. I call them up and I say, Yo, I need to vent. You need to listen. If something comes up, ask me a question. I got one person I don't even have to do that to. She's fucking panning the ass because she'll she'll jump in. I'm halfway through a sentence, and she'll jump in and go, boom, here's the question. It's like, no, I'm not even done, man. And she's like, nah, heard all your shit. Go answer this. Legit, it's what it's like. And it's like, well, I think this. Well, isn't that where you started? Yes, but I need to just talk it out. This is what she does. Oh, all right, I'm listening. Now fuck you. And she always laughs, and then she'll say, This was really easy, wasn't it? I'm like, Yes, okay. I can't really argue with her because she's like my grandmother, but and and I have, but my friends that I would call, I'd be like, yo, um, I need you to listen. If something comes up and you need to ask a question to find that information, cool, but don't want to hear your shit. I don't want to hear your opinion.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

And then they're like, Yep, cool, go for it. So then, and now all I have to do is just go, I need to vent, they know. Then I call, I vent, tell them some story around, because I'm human, I'll tell them some story around the decision or thing that I need to sort through, and then I'll they'll ask a question. Um, I've got one friend that asks lots of questions, and then he'll he'll lead me back. And I'm telling you, it happens so often. I will go back to the original thing that I needed to to do anyway. It's like this was the decision I had already made. Yeah. Now I had to, the ultimate thing that I had to do was work out how do I live with it. Yeah. It wasn't the decision itself. But we go on about the humans in general. We go on about how we've got this massive decision. Actually, the decision was really cool. That was really easy. Yeah. We already had it. How do I live with it? Is the problem. And so that's the talking out bit that we really do. Decision, you already knew.

SPEAKER_06 57:06

All right. So let's put it in a toolkit. I know we've spoken about some really cool stuff in there. So let's summer up.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

If I if I'm saying, if I'm talking with somebody about this stuff in this office, I would say meditation is a really good one, but don't listen to anything. Go into the meditation with a clear head and it just plays out whatever needs to play out. So whatever's coming up in your head, let it just dump out, right? Um, and then don't follow the story, just let it play like a video, and then move it further away so you become more dissociated with it because the story doesn't matter, right? Meditation is really good for that. But as soon as you add sound and stuff like that to it, then you're adding a more of a relaxation tone, which is very useful, but it may not help you with the decision or how I'm gonna live with it. It may not answer that for you, right? I'll just become more relaxed and more into my body, which is where we want to be, I get. But at the same time, we just need that shit to go out. Journaling's really good, one. All right. Um write it out, write it out, read it back. Where's all the shit? We can dump all that. This is the good stuff, boom. Yeah, another one, and then you make sure nobody can read it, obviously. Um, and and that that's a really good way of us connecting to the story and the decision and how I'm gonna live with it. It's really cool. Uh, there was another one that I have. I'm just trying to remember it. There's so many.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

You can name two.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Yeah, no, but there's so many. I mean, my head's moving at 50,000 miles an hour. Uh another one that I like is generally when we have big decisions, big life decisions, we'll have some type of physical pain tightness or something like that. And I like the idea that if we were to sit still, scan the body, where is the where is the pain, where is the tension, breathe into that tension, and then ask it, what do you need me to know? It's a really good one. And then going with that. So that's that's a positive one. Um, I like that one personally. I do that a lot with um clients in here.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

And then they give insights, really cool, cool insights. Um, but there's one big one, but I can't remember what it is. It's just not there. I'll look for it. It's been a long 10 days, haven't you? Yes, I do. You put me there, but anyway, no. Uh yeah, I think when we start to talk to our loved ones, our partners, they've got a certain um idea of how they how you should live your life. Yeah, so they can kind of get in the way in in some things. Um, but just trust in your gut. Listen to your gut. Where's your gut? It's not in your head, it's in your body. Listening to your heart. Don't allow the heart to be unheard. The heart gives you so much information. You don't listen to it, it'll hurt you. It'll hurt you. Listen to your heart. Which I got to say. To be able to listen to those two things, you have to be connected to your body.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

So be connected to your body as best as you can. That could be breathing exercise, that could be yoga, that could be stretching, that could be um meditation, it could be um just sitting, scanning your body, listening to what it has to say to you. I know that kind of sounds a little weird. And for some people, when I've when I've told them to do that, they've like, I'm gonna listen to the voices in my head. No, you're gonna just listen to the voices and the feelings that are coming out of your body. How do I do that? You're gonna sit there and you've got to be connected. How do I do that? So we're taking through it. All right, it's real simple. And then this is this feels weird, Luke. Always. This feels really weird. That's okay. The idea is not for you to do it in here, the idea is for you to do it when you're at home. Um, so yeah. Remember, it's not the decision that's the biggest one, it's how I'm gonna live with it that is the biggest one. Always stay, always stay connected to the body, and the body will lead you in the right place. Listen to the heart, trust the gut.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:39

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:41

All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Well good.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:43

Well, good. Thank you for that. Thank you for your insights.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

No, thank you actually for having the courage to share that. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:50

It is, it is, it is a big topic to talk about. And like I said at the beginning, it's not just my journey. There are lots of people, and you'll be surprised how many people are around you that may have gone through the same thing, and you would never know it. Yes, because it's just a topic that people don't talk about because it's taboo and people don't want to feel judged in any way. Um, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

It is okay. Obviously, not okay with everybody, but okay with some who are your trusted people. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:25

Those opinions don't matter. It's what matters to you and your your choice at the end of the day, your decision. Okay. Moving along. Um, your goal last week. Your goal last week was it was to do something in your business.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Yeah, to to change over the system.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:44

How'd you go with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

No, though, I don't even touch it.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:48

Oh, we could just name any goals then.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

This um I had all intentions of doing that. Uh, and then this course kicked your ass. Oh, I didn't fire out. It was emotionally taxing. It took up a lot of time, yes, but it was just emotionally taxing. I remember coming home here each night. I don't even know what I did, man. I just sat on, I remember sitting on the couches, half asleep, trying to remember what we did during the day to begin with. And then I'm like, I remember the kids talking to me, I'm like, I didn't even know what the fuck you're saying.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:27

I barely really struggled not having you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Yeah, and which when I come home, just all over you. And it's oh god, my god, though, I can't do it. I love you, Sam Hashford, please style. I don't know if you want to say it to her, but that's what was going on in my head. I was done, I was cooked. So no, I didn't really touch that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Okay. Um is there anything you did achieve?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

I would say inside this course because it was so emotionally taxing and that and we're doing some very heavy work um through mind-body medicine style work. Uh, I would say did some work on some trauma that I experienced that I thought it was over, and it apparently isn't. Um and so what is a wonderful thing, and you just store it, can't it? Yeah, bad, bad. And literally, let me tell you how this got broken. I got my I just got muscle tested. Now, let me tell you, muscle testing is the most simplest thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:34

Basic thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

It's basic, it does not create any tension, it is gentle when it's done properly. And this in this thing, uh, this lady was just did a muscle test on my neck, boom, I was gone, gone, I couldn't even see. And I like my I remember tapping the ground to make sure it was there, and I'm like, what the fuck's going on here? I would try to read, I couldn't read. I couldn't make sense of the what was on there, and I couldn't put the letters together, and my eyes are darting all over the place, and then and and I remember the trainers like, are you okay? I'm like, ha da, nah, nah. So sit down, she's holding some points on my wrist, some acupressure points, and she's asking questions about those acupressure points. And I'm like, Oh, that's where I used to get hit when I was a kid, and then boom, off I went. Just couldn't control the cry, could not control. And then she's like, it's okay, sit with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Fuck, I got no fucking choice.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

Um, so yeah, that's um, yeah, that was my week. That was a bit like that all that week.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

So uh what was your achievement and all that?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Yeah, my achievement was to get through some of that um that trauma.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:55

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

That I didn't choose, just happened. I suppose my body chose. It's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

Your body chose it and now your body's released it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

So yeah, it's a bit like taking shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:04

Oh, awesome. Yeah, great. That's no smell. Well, anyone that um has ever experienced that with Luke, it's not a good thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

What about yours?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:11

Did you um so my goal was to get Amelia to tie up shoelaces? That was a big fat fail. She just was not interested at all. Yeah, so um, and that's too hard, and I'd rather be doing something else. So it's just not important to her, like riding the bike. The riding the bike without turning wheels was important to her, yeah, which is why she picked it up so easy. But shoelaces, all of her shoes are Valcro, so there's no reason for her to do her shoelaces. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

So we throw them all out.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:42

So, you know, um, she's quite a smart cookie, so yeah, yeah. She knows how to play the shoes. Yeah, she knows how to play the game. I don't have to do shoelaces. I don't have I don't have shoelaces on my shoes, so you know that was a big fat fail for me, but you know, she's taught me I've got to be smarter. Um and one achievement.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Fuck was that no, what was your achievement? What was it? This week.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:08

My achievement. I don't like to say I got through the week without you, but that's a big deal. I was gonna say, but my there was one day that my body's just like, nah, go back to bed, you're not working.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Yeah, but you still got through the day where you still took the kids to school and did all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:24

Jesus. You still did it. Taxi, and you know, there was a day that I had to get Patrick to work after school as well. So work my work got put back even later, and there was another day we're out there's training, and so I worked at his training. It was just full on. It was just full on.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

So there was no other place to have any achievements in that time.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

No, which is probably what I'm pulling apart now. So a goal for me this week will be probably to do one of the things that you suggested and probably either do some meditation or some stretching or something um to release some of the pain I'm having in my hip and my knee. Um because I can't keep going like this. So I need to do something for myself. So that's a goal for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Yeah, good one. What's a goal? What is a goal for me? Well, I'm still on the same old goal because I didn't get it done. And I know and I have time this week. Plus, I have a couple of um assignments through a course I'm doing that I have to get done. So if I can get two of them done this week, I'll be very happy.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:30

That's a big goal for you because you're shit at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

I am.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:33

I am you oh, you always say I've got an assignment, and it's like, oh yeah, no, I'll put it not next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

No, you don't mind because I'll get clients come in and then uh much shit. No, no, and I much prefer to be working with them than writing a fucking assignment. Oh it's the truth. I'm sorry. That's the this is the way it is.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:54

Comes back to being in school, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

Never fan of school. Never a fan of school.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:00

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

Yep, let's get around it. Well, they do tell me to practice, practice, practice. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

They do.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

Yeah. All right. Thank you for the courage, Joe. Really appreciate the story. Uh hope that everybody else got something out of it. Uh, if you uh have experienced that, we'd love to hear from you. Uh share your story with us. We're obviously not going to share your story on here. Um, if you need to have a chat about it, please reach out.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:27

Um it's important to know it is a very safe environment. That's why we have these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Yeah, yeah. And you know, like I said before, if somebody's got an issue with it, uh take it up with your local member of parliament. I couldn't give a shit. Uh, because we made the decision and that's the way it is. Yeah, you don't like it, I don't care. Yep. Yeah. So uh thank you all. And you know what? I really want to make sure that everybody who has had to make a decision like that in the past, um, you need to know that you're you're still loved, uh, and we have uh a large respect for you because um we know how hard it was for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

So thank you all very much. And uh uh if you have anything, any topic you want us to talk about, please send it through lifesbumpsbruises at gmail.com uh and uh we will we'll hit you up. So thank you all so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:23

And uh we'll see you when you're looking at you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Yeah, see you when I'm looking at you. So that's the thank you guys, take care.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

Bye.