Navigating The School System & Advocating For My Child

In this massive episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Luke and Joanne discuss how to navigate the school system and what the limitations and intentions behind schools requesting assessments of children for diagnoses. 

In the Unpack That segment, Luke and Joanne discuss the importance of young children having their favourite toy and what this toy represents for them. 

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into:

• Understanding the school system
• How to advocate for your child to get positive outcomes
• Knowing how to navigate the services available through your child’s school
• Recognising the importance of your child’s first best friend

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🎧 New episodes drop every Tuesday — let’s open up about the challenges we all face, one real chat at a time.

Credits:

The Inspiration by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon

Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Life's full of bumps and bruises. I'm Luke Lee Tet, counsellor and life coach, joined by Joanne Lee Tet, mum and HR professional living what seems to be a never-ending roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Each week we discuss strategies to navigate the bumpy road of life.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

With practical approaches to difficult life moments, we bring real life options to the challenges everyday people face.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome to Life's Bumps and Bruises.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We're glad you're here. And uh it's changed a lot since uh we've had Joanne here. Uh, but it's been good. We've had some really good feedback. Joe, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Thanks. Yeah, it's um it's been a whirlwind and you know, people getting an insight into our marriage and how um I guess challenged Joe can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

That challenged we can all be, right? Last week we discussed um what did we discuss last week? We discussed why do I care so much about what others think of me?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yep. Uh and we talked about self-judgment and how that kind of plays out in relationships. Uh, did you get anything out of that, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah, I did. I think it's um important to remember that um your what you're perceiving others think of you um is probably not accurate. And if you feel as though they are self-judging, it's probably something that they're judging within themselves. Um, so I I did find that very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, and and so the feedback's been a bit that way too, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, it's been good. Um so today we have a very interesting topic. Uh, navigating the school system as a parent. Uh that's uh it's a big topic. Um, we probably won't get into everything about it, uh, but we're gonna focus mainly on diagnosis and how to navigate the well-being side of school, um, which will be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Um before we get into that, how's your last week been?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

The last week's been uh full on. Full on.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

You've been doing your uni stuff?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, man, I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Long days.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, man, I'm tired. Got a couple more days to go, but tired, tired, tired.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Um it's been the last week of school holidays and starting school again and trying to get back into the weekly grind.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, man. Just yeah, yeah. I kind of I I think I I need a couple days after a big week like this. It's all practice, practice, practice, practice. And uh at the same time as you're practicing, you have to be a client as well. So it's taxing. It's taxing. Yeah. Um, how about how about you? You been all right?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah, it's um, you know, we always say it's been a busy week. It's kind of like the repetitive thing we say on the show, but um, it's been challenging, but good. Um, like we said at the end of the last show that you know, being a single parent, like wow, how how they do that. Um, and I've got a little taste of it with you being out of action. Um, and it's not something I would ever want to experience. Um, you know, just need to be organized.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

That's life. Life's officer bruises get around it.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, yeah. And so coming back to school, it's like, you know, school's a blessing. We can just shove them off to school and you know, who's who's got a school holidays? Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Anyway, uh, you gotta unpack that today?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I do, I do have an unpack that and um it it actually reminded me of um when Patrick was little. So um during school holidays, I was dropping a millionaire off at my sister's place um so she could have a sleepover in a few days there. And you know, we got 10 minutes, 15 minutes into this into the um the drop-off. And she turned around and she asked, you know, where's Lammy? Lammy is her little stuffed toy that she sleeps with every night. And I'm like, didn't you grab it? And she's like, No, you were meant to. I'm like, I packed everything else. That was your one job. And I knew that if we didn't go back and get the stuffed toy, she would not sleep. And I would most likely end up having to go back to my sister's to pick Amelia up because she would not sleep over. And similarly, when Patrick was a baby, he had a little blanket that he became attached to and he couldn't sleep without it. Um, but his attachment was a little bit more than just sleeping. He had it in the car, he took it everywhere, took it to childcare, took it everywhere with him, and it became like a little security blanket. And we know lots and lots of kids, you know, have these security blankets, security items. Um, and I guess I just want to unpack why. Why do kids get so attached to these things? Um, you see the desperate pleas on Facebook sometimes where a mum has lost something at a park or a shopping centre, and you know, they're desperate because even if you replace it with the same thing, it's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Why?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, okay. So when a child's born, their first friends are mum and dad, right? Yeah. And if they've got siblings and you got their siblings as their next point of call for friendships. Uh, but outside of the family, their very next friend, I would say, would be that stuffed toy or the the the blanket, right? I mean, that's their safety in that, uh, because they're our first friend. And I think that that's an important thing to keep in mind is uh they can get overly attached for sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Uh, but I would say that uh it's an important factor for them from a security perspective. It's their best friend, right? Nobody wants to go anywhere without their best friend, right? And so uh you'd be surprised if you ever if you ever listen closely enough to uh a young child spending time with their their toys, you hear the conversations they have with their toys.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, it's actually quite funny.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

It it is. Um it's funny how adult they can be with their with their toys, funny enough, and then they speak beyond their ears. Um and and you'll hear them speak to that toy or blanket or whatever, and you you hear them talk to them like they're their best friend.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, come on, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah, yeah. Because they are, they are. So, you know, if I can't have mum and dad there, what's the next best thing? When I could stuff a toy in my bag or I can carry or whatever it is, and and it's all good. Um, I'm gonna go everywhere where I can with that toy. So yeah, don't underestimate that. I know that there have been parents in the past that have been um a bit unsure about allowing their kid to have that. Yep. And like, I don't want them to get overly attached to it and all this sort of stuff. And and I appreciate that. I do.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, because as a parent, if you lose that thing, you're stuffed.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, man. Yeah. But at the same time, I think uh initially it'd be a good it's a good thing. It's a good thing to have. Uh treat it like a best friend, you know. Um it's always interesting when you know your child comes over with their stuffed touring and they say, Oh, dad, you know, what what does it mean? They got Lammy.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Lammy, yeah, you gotta say a lot to Lammy. If you call Lammy a him, she tells you off. Lammy the girl.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yes, yeah. Um, so they yeah, they um you've got to talk to them, you've got to communicate with them. It's um, you know, it's a it can be a good thing too, because you can actually um go back into your younger years and play play it out. I think it's a really cool thing. Um, but yeah, that that'd be what it is. I mean, I I think it's just them being that this is my best friend and uh I don't want to go anywhere without my best friend and yeah, I loved my best friend.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

So is is there a a time or an age where um that should be weaned out or they wean that out themselves?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I reckon they'll they'll grow out of it, personally. Uh, and I reckon they'll grow out of it when they're ready.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Um also think that the kids are a little bit more stable with their friendship groups at schools and stuff like that. I think that that uh accelerates that process. There are times when uh I've even seen our children forget about that best friend, that that toy. They'll come home, they'll mess around, do whatever it is they're doing, um, and then they'll go to bed, and then you look on the table, you look on the couch, and there's that stuffed toy. And they haven't asked for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah. So that's kind of the start of the process.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

I think that yeah, that the but if they're sleeping over in a foreign, like my sister's place, just not a regular thing, that then becomes a real click, like a clinch when they have to have it.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

I mean it's not their environment.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And we're not there with them. Yeah, as parents, we're not there with them. Uh so it's uh it's an important factor for the child. And you know, I mean, if you're a parent, you've had to deal with this before, you you you lose that toy, it's on. Yeah, it's on. Um, I remember one time, you know, Patrick had a blanket that he wanted.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Um yeah, he had he had two of the same blanket.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And the blanket was huge.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, and then one wore out the other one fell to shit or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

I'll I'll fill the gaps for you because you're shit.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

There were two, and it was quite large. We kept one at home and the other one that because it used to um either bite or or um rub the ends, and it and the corners started to fall apart. And um, my mum essentially what she did was she cut the blanket into four squares and sewed each of the corners so then those little blankets could go to childcare with him instead of this massive blanket being carried around into the sand and got it got filthy.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So there was a way around it.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Um and you know what? It didn't take him long to grow out of that.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

No, but it's funny because we still have it. Um, it's in a cupboard somewhere, and when we moved, it came out, and Patrick still recognized of what it was. Yeah, he didn't need it. And he's like, Well, why have we still kept that? But he instantly recognized. And I actually still have a teddy from when I was a kid in my wardrobe. Yeah, I've never thrown it away.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

She still sleeps with it.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I do not fucking sleep with it. I still have it. And I I still remember when I was a kid, um my sister and I were fighting over it and used to have wings, like it was this little teddy, brown teddy that had wings, and we're fighting it, and she pulled the wings off. And look, I don't remember a lot when I was little, but that is very distinct in my memory.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Because that was my teddy, that was my um security blanket.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah. And then you grew out of it kind of because you still sleep with it. But um, but yeah, like I said, I think that once you go to school, the friendship groups that you create, I think they replace that and give you a bit more stability. Uh when you're little, the the stability is a little different. Um, yes, you still can lean on mum and dad, but mum and dad got to work and mum and dad got to run around and do a whole bunch of different things. And the the child kind of um will sometimes have to do things on their own. Uh, you know, they'll have to play on their own, they'll have to keep themselves occupied by themselves. And uh that that toy uh is a big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. So heads up for parents out there that if you're buying something as a security that they're going to sleep with, buy a few.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

That are very similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

They're very similar because if you lose one, hopefully you can replace it and it looks exactly the same. Um, because yeah, it's tough. It's tough to then try and replace that security thing and they get quite grumpy. If you can't find it, can't replace it.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

100%. Yep. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Okay. So if they have that security thing, don't be so alarmed. They will eventually grow out of it themselves.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yes, yes. Um, yeah. I think uh I think most parents know that, but uh in the moment it's really tough to remember that.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

It is. Well, you know, I had to turn around on a freeway, find the next exit, and come all the way home to pick up the the toy because I knew exactly what it would be like. And I wanted her to have a good experience, like you know, for at a cousin's house rather than a real shit one because she didn't have a teddy.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So, all right.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

What's our topic for today?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Uh, navigating the school system.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Navigating the school system.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

We had we had issues with this um with with one of our children. Um and I have worked in schools. Uh what a mess.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, it is. I mean, as a parent, when you your first child goes to school, you really have no idea and you rely so much on the school to give you information um because you don't know what to expect. Um, when your second comes along, you kind of have more of an idea, and the more kids that you have go through the system, the less you actually care. Um so, yes, our experience with Patrick going to school for the first time was a bloody whirlwind. I mean, he was a handful as it was.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Absolute handful. Um, to the point where he would just couldn't even sit down. But in his first week, it was extremely challenging where he was vis physically attacked by a parent in the yard.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And that was full on.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

That was full on. And it was actually, it's actually very concerning that an adult physically assault a kid.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

When we say physically assault, we don't mean the uh the overarching physical assault. We're talking a parent uh pushed it, a child pushed our child over and has stood over and then punched him a couple of times.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Um that's still pretty bad, Luke.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yes, but you know, when people say assault, I he he, you know, somebody pushed him. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm I legit mean he actually got legitimately assaulted. Yeah. Um, which was pretty full-on grey prep for a parent to do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah, first week of great prep. And the backstory was that um Patrick and this parent's son um were pushing and shoving in the playground.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And they both got suspended. They both got suspended.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah, they both got suspended. Um, but apparently it's quite normal for kids, especially boys, to come to a you know, a primary school. And it's all about finding your feet, finding your friends.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

They're finding your place.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Finding your place in the school. Um, so you know, obviously you don't ever want your child pushing and hurting another child, but then you don't, as a parent, you don't go take it out on the other kid as well. Like that boundary was completely crossed. So we got kind of thrown into the deep end going, okay, how do we navigate this? And my first concern was I don't ever want that parent around that school or around my son ever again. Um, and I really had no idea what to do.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Well, the story and then went on because then it was like, uh, you know, you can imagine the trauma that the poor kid's gone through. Yeah. And then it's the then it's like, oh, the school's answer to that was to go get him tested. Yeah. And you know, I I work with a lot of people that have children in similar situations that need to be tested, cognitive assessments and all this sort of jargon, right? And they're all good. They are all the assessments are good, but they kind of get bullied into getting them done for lots of different reasons. But in our case, uh I pushed him into getting it done.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, they wanted a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

They wanted it because they wanted funding.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And just like everybody else. Uh, and then uh I remember we took him in to get the assessment done just to tick the box, really, because I knew at the time that he wasn't gonna get as any sort of diagnosis, really. Uh, and the it was really funny, we actually had a very good psychologist do it. Yeah. Uh, older lady, very good. Uh, in the past, the dealings I've had with psychologists in this space was not great. Uh, but this lady was really good. And then she's like, There's something not right with these results. And I said, Explain it to me. And she said, Well, then the results are so inconclusive, I can't make any sort of judgment on anything. I need more history.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah. Like, because literally they go on a session or two sessions.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Two sessions, so two sessions.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

They don't have any history and nothing. They they do testing in the sessions and they make their diagnosis, which I don't particularly agree with, but that's not my field.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

To me, like I think that the assessment should start with the history first. In this case, it didn't, it might have changed, but in this case it didn't. And then she's like, you know, this doesn't make sense. Too many things are inconclusive. There's no definitive anything. Um, what do we do? Tell me, tell me more about his history. Then we explain a couple of different things that had happened for the poor kid. And uh uh she's like, Oh, well, that makes sense. Of course, this poor kid can't do this, you know. He can't sit still, he he's he's jumping around. He's he's he he was essentially having what's called an amygdala hijack, where his uh the uh uh survival part of his brain, man, that took a lot to get out of my head, right? Yeah, survival part of his brain uh was had kicked in and in overdrive, and he couldn't manage. Um, so learning is off when that happens. And so she's like, Okay, this is the sort of things he needs. We went and sourced work uh that work from elsewhere, and what was really interesting um and difficult for me was when I was a kid, same sort of thing happened for me. I was a little older, I was in grade three. Um, my younger cousin, who was in grade prep, I think at the time, got hit by this kid that was my age. So I give that kid a hide, a kick, all right? Uh as you do, growing up in Brody.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, Brussels just a hiding.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah, and then uh well, it was in grade three. Um then go to school on the Monday. So this happens on a weekend. So go to school on a Monday, and his mum, this kid's mum, chases me around school. And with his with his with her sister, so the the kid's auntie, they're chasing me around school. And I'm running away from the kid, the mum, and I run straight into the auntie who locks my arms back, pins me back, and then mom comes running over and punches me fair square right between the ice. Um, and there's blood everywhere from my nose and whatever I couldn't see. I was all I was in all sorts of trouble. But either way, um, back then they didn't do assessments or anything, and uh, but uh my learning was just gone, right? Um, and then uh so we take our son to go get some support from a friend of ours, she's very, very good. Um her name's Lynn McCall, and she she does some work with Patrick, does some brain function stuff with him, um, which was excellent. And then she just looks at me and she goes, You know that we're gonna have to do work on you too. Like, what do you mean? She's like, Well, uh, he's picking up on you, watching you, um, how you experienced the world, um, and a whole bunch of different things. And I'm like, Are you sure? I didn't know how to take that at the time. Um, and then she's like, Yeah. So I ended up doing nine sessions with her, and we did a whole lot of different stuff. Oh my god, it was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

This is all the kind of stuff that you're learning now through uni, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I don't think you can call it uni. I don't know if you're allowed to. Um, but anyway, um, so then uh did uh did these nine sessions with her, and I'm telling you, I did my sessions were three hours, two, two and a half to three hours long. And because she was looking after us, and she did in a s in a big way, I was seeing her at like nine o'clock, right? At night. And so I'm not finishing there again until midnight. And there were times here when I would get home, you know, because it's an hour and a half drive to go see her. I wouldn't get home until nearly midnight, uh, after midnight, right? And it was was massive. But what happened was once we took care of my stuff, her stuff, uh, our son's stuff started to settle too. And it happened really, really quickly. And uh I find I found a similar approach with the parents and children I work with. Generally, the parents think that if we take care of my kids' problem, then everything's solved, right? But it's where they got that from. Some of that stuff could be school related in terms of the friendships and yeah, the school system and all that sort of stuff. But uh, a lot of it is to um how the child is picked up on the parent. And the more that I've looked into it, the more study I've done around her, because I've logged myself in this area just to prove Ling Lynn wrong. And every time I look at her, I've continue to prove her right. Um and uh and it's yeah, it's it's been huge. Uh, and then when we've taken care of the parent. Problem with taking care of the child problem. Yeah. Organically.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

It's hard to reflect as a parent to see that what you are doing is reflecting or being picked up by your kids organically.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

And you take it.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Monkey see, monkey do don't ever underestimate that. How much you are a barrier to their growth.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

And the school system doesn't see that.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

No, that they see the kid, they see the behavior, and they either have punishment or diagnosis or but even still, you could have the diagnosis and then still get punishment.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Because consequences there are.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

There are. I'm not saying that any kid, you know, doing the wrong thing at school should not have consequences because they need to learn.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

But the consequences are blanket across the board. Yeah. That's where I get why. Yeah. But it's not fair. Yeah. It really isn't. Um, but anyway, like and and the schools to their to their credit, they're only really there for the kids. But I will say this one thing. The school system right now, especially here in Victoria, is not a place of education anymore. It is a workplace.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Well, let's let's park that. Yeah. Park that.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Let's start up some trouble.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, yeah. You know, the strikes at the moment in Victoria are fun. Anyway, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

No, no, not just the strikes, it's just in general, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Let's park that. Let's let's go back to um to what happened to Patrick and prep. So the he gets assaulted by the parent. Then there's, you know, him trying to work out is he safe at school? There's parent meetings to make sure that Patrick is safe at school. That kid, unfortunately, or fortunately, fortunately for that kid, he's not punished and removed from the school because it's not his fault what his parents did. It's not his fault. It's not his fault what the parent did, but he's also in prep. So how's he going to get picked up from school? And so all these things are happening in place to make sure Patrick's safe. He doesn't see that parent. That parent's no longer allowed to come into the school grounds to pick up their kid. But we're still dealing with Patrick and him not feeling safe because he's done he still doesn't understand he's a preppy. Got no idea. Um, and so he's now exhibiting these behaviors. So the school's like, well, he's not behaving properly. They don't link trauma to behavior.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

No, it's not their job.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

That's not their job. So they send they recommend we go and get tested. The psychologist is like, well, these results are freaking bullshit. I can't do anything, these were these results, no wonder. Go and do this. In the meantime, the school gets. He's not diagnosed with anything.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

So they gave him something.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Carry on.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

No, they gave him something.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yes. They gave the school gave him something.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Yeah. Or was it? Remember what was good?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

I think they did severe behavior.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah, severe severe behavior.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Severe behavior, because he kept acne out because he never felt safe.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Um, and so the school's decided to label him. And that is my biggest issue. Well they work in labels.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, yeah. And it was only just the other day that I got the other day.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

I I had to sign something for um uh he's going, oh, I think it was school carnival or whatever. And you know, like at the moment everything is on compass, which is great, it's really easy as a parent to navigate. Um, and I looked at the diagnosis and it's still frickin' on there for year him in year 10 of something that he got in prep.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yep, it will. It just follows him. And you know what? That's the difficult part.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Any, and I need everybody to really hear me. If you've got a child that uh is going to, you know, on the cusp of being diagnosed with something, understand it will follow them everywhere, everywhere forever. It's not going away. Um, and that's an official diagnosis. Now, with with our son, it it's not necessarily official diagnosis, it's something inside the school system, severe behavior, so they could get funding when he was in primary school. Um now, diagnosis is dangerous and they're good. It's it's it's it's double and thought, isn't it? Yeah, it's a mindfield because uh you want the best for your children, and if you uh get your diagnosis, then you can the school can apply for funding, they can use that funding to get an aid. What everybody needs to understand about the AIDS inside schools is that just because you got funding doesn't mean it's for your child. Yeah, no, it all gets pulled together.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

So let's just say they see it as an extra resource in the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

So let's just say you've got a a um a school of a thousand kids. Out of the school of a thousand kids, it's probably five percent, maybe a little bit more, that are gonna get funding, right? They're gonna qualify for funding. Some schools have more than five percent. Um if it's a low socioeconomic school, that is we we can uh pretty much say with a high level of certainty there's gonna be a lot of trauma around um the domestic violence. Um and then you you also then have uh migrants coming into the country, they'll go to those types of schools, uh, and they yeah, there's heaps of stuff, right? There's heaps that there's heaps in that. So then uh they'll they'll get more funding, right? Because they'll have more kids that are gonna need it. Then all of that money gets pulled into one resource, and then they that's how they pay for the AIDS, right? Now they say that when you get your funding, that it equates to this many hours throughout the week, right? This many hours of let's just say it was 12 hours, right? You get 12 hours of funding per week for support. That doesn't always work out that way. No, it doesn't, and I'll tell you what, it is just jargon.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

The kids don't actually get what they need. Um, a lot of the time they do, and it's not the aides' fault, it really isn't. Um they'll they'll move kids around to uh they'll move the aides around to get the best bang for buck. Yeah. Um, and uh and that that includes the the kids that are a lot more severe than the others, um, they'll they'll redirect those funds towards them. Uh there are times when they'll do the best they can to get that those hours um from the the aides in the classroom, but a lot of time it's not it's not beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

No, it's not. And as a parent, navigating that, it's difficult because you really have no idea um what the role of the aid is. Um, and are they actually working with your kid? You don't know that at the time. You just know, okay, they're being diagnosed with something, it's actually going to benefit your child because it means they get some one-on-one tile with an aid. Fantastic. But they don't. But they don't, and you don't even know what it looks like. There's so much that you are not told by the school system. And as a parent, if you're not asking questions or trying to hold them accountable, you really don't know what's going on. I mean, there was a point there that the school would only call me, even though you were the main contact. And the reason why you were the main contact is because you would work locally. I worked in the city. So anytime anything happened, it'll take me two hours at least to get to the school. And I wasn't always able to answer the phone. So you were the main contact. The problem is you would hold them accountable. You would ask so many questions that they stopped calling you.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Because they hated dealing with you. They did. And it wasn't that you were aggressive or anything on the phone to them. You just asked them very what they saw, hard questions that tried to hold them accountable to what they do or what was right for my son. And when they got me, I was very short on time. So it would be, yep, no, yep, no worries. So I could hang up the phone and get back to what I was doing, or I had to leave work to get on the train, or then take me an hour and a half, two hours to get there.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

So we're unhappy with as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

But I was so time poor that it was better for them to call me because I wouldn't ask the questions. So as a parent, I would suggest be more like Luke because it's your kid.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yep. It's just how you go about it.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

It is. And you need somebody to do that. And obviously, I relied on Luke because he also knew the school system.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

To a degree at the time, it was a bit difficult, but the the key here is to um to quiz them. Uh, if we get the diagnosis, what does that look like? They'll always say we don't know because we won't know what he will what what your child will um qualify for because it's a long application process.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Uh and it's actually quite costly to the individual too, isn't it? Like as a parent, don't you have to pay to go and get testing?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A lot of the testing will be private.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Um and so that the school doesn't factor that in either. They just go go get testing.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah, and I they they do factor that in. They know that uh it it's gonna come at a cost. Some of it, I think for some people, depending on whether you got uh whether you receive certain types of benefits from the government, um you might get uh some of it covered um under the under some plans who I actually don't know that 100%, but I I think some of it can be covered, but for the most part, you're getting it done and you're paying for it. Most um cognitive assessments and those types of assessments uh are gonna cost you somewhere between three or four grand. Um and then it gets sent to the school as well when it gets sent to you uh and to your GP and then they make assessments from there what they're gonna do. Um my thing is you can't have enough meetings with the school. So the in in uh Victoria they call them SSGs. Um was a student support group, I think it is, SSG, um, where they have you know, your coordinator might be there, the um the well-being team might be there, or somebody representing the well-being team. Um, then you might have the the one of the teachers might be there, um, and then the parents are there. If there's an external support in some way, they may attend the SSG from time to time, and then they discuss that stuff. Like, what does it look like to support the child? You can't have enough SSGs. What I found in uh in my time at schools is a lot a lot of SSGs aren't attended by the parents um because they and I I just made it my business because I'm a nosy prick.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Um, I'm like an advocate, you'll be feel the kid.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah, but I called it, I call the parents and ask them, heck, I made our show to the um the uh SSGs, and um especially at this one particular school that I worked at, and they're like, This is what they would say. What's the fucking point? You don't fucking listen to me. You guys don't fucking understand what we're fucking dealing with, and this is the type of language you're using, and and they're getting really frustrated and really angry because uh all the onus was thrown back onto the parents, all the onus was thrown back on the child, and the schools are the schools are like, Well, this is his behavior, well, this this child's behavior, we're not dealing with it no more. You handle it, and it's like how does a parent handle that behavior when they're not even there?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, yeah, and and some parents might not even see it because the environment of the school is very different to the environment at home.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

100%.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

And so, you know, in in your case, and for those that don't know, Luke, he worked in high schools, so that's the case.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah, we worked in one that prepped at 12 too.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, so those environments are very different to what Patrick was at from a primary school point of view, and all high schools are different because there's some high schools that you know in different areas as different socioeconomic economics. Um so when when the kids become their environment, that is not usually factored in.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Well, you know what shit is when to your point, is the teachers label the kid the naughty kid, right? And as soon as that is labeled, the child will always live up to it. Well, if that's who I am, that's who I'm gonna be. And that's why I'm really um concerned about the over-prescription of diagnosis right now. I feel like the kids are being over-prescribed, and uh because once they get the diagnosis, you hear our olts do this too, man. Once something goes wrong, let's just say you've got a person with ADHD, something will blow up, something will happen, and then the person who's got the diagnosis will always say, Oh, that's just my ADHD. And they blame the diagnosis for the thing, the behavior. And that's why I don't like it. Why couldn't you just be a shit person? You know what I mean? Why can't you just be having you've got something else happening for you, then you had big feelings, and that's okay, this just blew up, right? Yeah, cool, you didn't handle well. Okay, that's okay. Let's work with you, right? Yeah, instead of going, oh, that's just my ADHD. Fuck that does my heading that bit.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, there's there's lots of I was watching something the other day on um the morning shows, and they're talking about the over prescription of is it Ritalin or whatever it is, and it's they're just handing it out like fucking lollipops.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Yeah, man. Skittles, man.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, and like you know, the NDIS has to have a massive overhaul because it was never designed um for all these diagnoses, especially ADHD's been added on there. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have support in any way. 100%, but it just seems like an easy option to get a diagnosis, and the schools are funneling people to do that so then they have their supports and they've got labels. And like you said, the schools are just pushing it all back. Are they actually teaching now?

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Hmm. That's a that's a big conversation, but um, especially because I've got friends that are teachers, but I think they're doing the best they can.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Is it very old? It'd hate to be a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

You'll be tough. Um I I I don't know if it's uh Where are the boundaries? I don't know if it's a a full teacher issue. I think it's a system issue.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

It's not a teacher issue. Teachers work in that system, so they get told what to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Essentially, and and that's that's where the breakdown I think is.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Um Well, you know, you were assaulted by it by a student, and a teacher essentially just stood there and waited until the bell went until it's okay, home time now.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

No, no, we're not talking about uh a teacher, we're talking about a leader in the school, in the top-tier leadership. Uh it's like, okay, cool, let him go. And the whole reason why we were trying to support this kid was because he was about to give another kid a severe hiding, which as Sruzabel went, he did. Uh and uh and we could have avoided that. But anyway, that's a different conversation. But so so for me personally, um uh the school system's a bit overrun. And I think the biggest issue is that we've moved away from the times when parent uh where where teachers were held in high regard by the community, right? And I I remember, you know, just growing up, because I was a shit kid.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Um really just when you're a kid, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Save your comments to yourself though. Call your therapist. Now, anyway, um, I would say, yeah, when when I was a kid, the uh if I got into trouble by a teacher, my my parents go off their rocker because they didn't want to be told off by a teacher, you know, and it was really interesting because the um the teachers were held in such high regard. Now we're at a point now, and I seriously believe this is the reason why we're at this point, is that we went to we got to a point where it's like okay, the school system uh the the the government says, all right, no more beating up your kids. That shit's wrong. Stop beating up your kids. It's costing us a lot of money to support all the trauma, right? And it had to happen. Yeah, it had to happen. It wasn't discipline that happened to us, we got our asses beat. Yeah, I've never been beaten as much as it did from my parents, right? And uh, so you know, they cleaned it up. They had to do that, it had to happen. But the problem was is that monkey seeing monkey do is so important uh for everybody's development. And so then we had a generation or two of parents that didn't know how to parent because they only knew what they knew from what they received from their parents, which was not disciplined, it was an ass kicking, and now it's like, well, I'm not allowed to do that anymore. How do I do it? Yeah, and then the support that came out after that was fucking ridiculous. Oh, you just got to sit down and have equal, it's got to be equal with your child. Absolutely not. You're the authority, you're not a fucking equal. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Yeah, so kids don't see teachers as the authority, no, because they don't see their parents as an authority. Well, what I find interesting is you know, when we were coming through school, it was miss and sir.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah, now the teachers call their teachers by their first name, yeah, because they're trying to create a friendship style relationship. I'm like, what do you mean? And guess what? Where have you seen that before? Fucking at home, yeah, where where the the lack of authority means there's a lack of respect. And because we haven't, and this is a big thing that I harp on when I work with clients that are going through this is how to reclaim your authority back as a parent. Because you you need it, and once you get it and you um you you you play it out, that child then starts treating all adults with a different level of respect, especially their teachers, right? Uh so so you know the system's a bit fucked at the moment, and I'm not just talking about school system, this is the society in general where we don't have enough people, uh enough parents that have authority anymore because that don't know how to do discipline without being physical. Um, so yeah, a bit of tough love, man. You can give that out. Don't have to physically hit anybody.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

No.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

But um, so so that's really where it comes down to. So now we've got parents, uh you've got teachers trying to befriend students instead of being an authority. And how do they reclaim that back if the parents don't do it?

SPEAKER_01 41:09

No.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

They can't.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

No. So as a as a parent, how do you navigate? Well, even as a student, how do you navigate that system? Because there's lots of students that want to go and learn and they get support from teachers. Like, you know, it's funny because when we go to do parent-teacher interviews, there's some teachers that are like, don't even bother, I don't even know why he I don't even know why he turns up because he doesn't apply himself. He's not interested. But when he is interested in a certain subject, it's they could be the same teacher. They could be the same, yes. In some instances, what same two one teacher, two different classes, one's like, I don't even know who this kid is, doesn't apply himself, much around, and in any other class, he's an A model student. How do I get two different students? And it's all comes to do with the subject. He hates one subject and he loves the other.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Um, but what I find is when he in the in the subject that he is interested in is excelling in, he gets a lot of time and he gets encouraged and he continues to learn. When he's but in the shit subject, he's just put in the corner and it's like, well, you don't even you're not trying, so I'm not even going to bother helping you.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

So with kids, how do they navigate the system?

SPEAKER_00 42:25

How do they navigate the system? They're navigating the system right now. They're kicking their system's arts, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Well, you know, there's there's all different kids, you know. Like sometimes Patrick comes home and he tells me about the fights that happened in at school. And they're pretty violent, they're pretty bad.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And it's all about trying to not get dragged into it and staying out of it and not being keeping your head down, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

And if you're a kid that is kind of blends in and I don't know, doesn't get noticed, you're okay. But if you're on the cus, how do you navigate that? And as a parent, how do you support that?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Because easy to get dragged into that ship.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I remember going to school. Schools felt so much bigger than what they do right now.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Um what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Some of the schools are huge. Yeah, but they've got more kids in them. Look at one one school I worked at three uh, what was it, 3,000 kids? Yeah. Right? In a small space. And it was an actual and you know what? You couldn't walk through the schoolyard without bumping into at least 15, 20 kids. Like you're gonna actually physically bump into them because there's no space front.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

What I find amazing is that when you were at school, you they what do they call you? Tony.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah, Tony, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

They called you Tony. And why do they call you Tony?

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Uh, because uh it was asked to me what am I gonna do in my first two weeks at the school? And I'm like, well, how many kids are you guys seeing at the moment? Like 130. I gotta do we we gotta see out of a school of 3,000, right? Between six. Seven of us, right? We need to be supporting, triple that, right? So in the first two weeks, what I did was I went and stood in front of one of the coordinator's offices and just stood there recessing lunchtime.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

So you were present?

SPEAKER_00 44:13

I was present. And then the kids would it was really funny. This one kid walks over and he's just standing next to me. And he's shaping up against me, like checking out my muscles, or then checking his muscles, and he's looking and he's trying to stand like I was. And I'm like, You're out there, bud? And he's like, Yeah, man, what's your name? I go, it's Luke. And he goes, Nah, Tony, bro. I'm like, what do you mean? Go nah, I'm pretty sure. I know my name. It's Luke. Nah, man. Tony. I go, how do you come over, Tony? Tony Soprano. Oh, you're a gangster, sir. You're a gangster. I just like whatever, buddy, whatever, man. And off he goes, he runs off.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Funny, you could have your cigars through, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Funny as, man. Anyway, so the kid runs off. And then so that was at a recess. And then at that day, lunchtime, there was at least 50 kids standing around me, shaping up against me, trying to check out how big they are by comparison to how big I was. And we're having funny chats with all these kids. And then there was a massive Islander group that came over and started chatting. They were really good kids. All of them were great kids. Uh, and I I tell you now that my caseload extended beyond what seven were doing before. So what they were doing at 130, I'm pretty sure my caseload from was roughly 160, 170 by the time I finished there.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Um, and you were dealing with kids that fit all over the place, kids that didn't know where they fit, kids that would excel, kids that are common at home, troubled kids, people that would start fights. You like you saw them all and you had the respect of them all.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

And that was because you were present and you just listened to them.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

No, I treated them like humans, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

I didn't uh uh there were boundaries for sure, but they knew them. Yeah, and I didn't want to overstep them because it was a luxury to get time with somebody like me. It wasn't just me, there were other teachers in the school that were very similar, and they they it was a luxury to get time with you because I mean you think about it. At one point I was seeing 25, 30 kids in a day, right? In inside the the six, seven hours that you're out of school, it there were kids who were waiting for me before they would wait for me in a car park. And oh, you parked a car and they're talking to you all the way to your office, and then they're talking to you while you're still setting up for the morning. Um, and I used to get to work real early because I like to be set up and be prepared to hit the day. Um, and then even after school, it was full on. It was a luxury, so they respected it a little differently. There were still times when you know we we butt heads a little bit because somebody would overstep the boundaries, but then the the key for that is we hit the reset button tomorrow. It is completely that's gone. I don't worry about it anymore. I'm not gonna drag it over.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Um so if you're a parent and you're worried about your kid at school, what would you advise them?

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I would advise them. Advise the parent or the child?

SPEAKER_01 47:08

The parent. Well, either. There's probably different advice for different yeah. So as a parent, what would you advise a parent?

SPEAKER_00 47:15

I would say to them, show up to the SSGs. Show up to the SSG. Um, make sure you have meetings with the right people. Um, coordinators are always good. And I would always link in well-being. Always. Even though some well-being teams aren't quite at the level that we would want them to be at because they're they're stretched. Um, I would always request well-being to be involved and someone from school leadership. And make sure that you get minutes of the meetings. Yeah. So you've got something to follow through with and it is an action plan in place. Um now you have to make sure you follow through on your end, right? Do your but your bit. Um, and some of that will be you may need skill building. So you might need to go into a program or you might need to go see a counselor or somebody like that, that you're going to need to build up your own skills because you've got the the you've got gaps, right? Which is fair enough. Parenting isn't easy, it's the toughest job in the world, and we're not really prepared for it sometimes. Um, I I would always suggest to every single parent try the natural way first. So once you know, get in there, mate.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Come on. Oh, mate, just shut up, mate.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Well, you got a hot day, can hurry up.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yeah, well, come on.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

So for me, um, I would say try the natural thing first. So when the school says to you and you need diagnosis, we need to go get in test, get your child tested, all this sort of stuff. Uh, you can do that, but there are natural remedies to support kids before diagnosis needs to be done. I've got a I've got a client at the moment who's um like the school's like, wow, we need to get um a diagnosis so we can get the speech pathology stuff in uh at a more regular basis. And I uh I said to the the parent comes to me and he's like, Oh, what do we do? I said, Well, we do some brain function work. Really? Yeah, yeah. And I so we test him, and there did there are tests that you can do, physical tests um and assessments, and you can see that this poor kid got zero balance, zero balance, which tells us that he's having an amygdala hijack, can't stand at his own two feet, uh, especially with his eyes closed. The poor kid's falling all over place. Cool, cool. So let's do some work on that. Do some work on that. Now this kid all of a sudden has got some uh narrower focus, isn't able to uh manage himself in a classroom differently. Right. So we can dump that that whole thing. So always try the natural thing first. You just gotta be really careful where you go to get that.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

A parent wouldn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

And that's that's a bit yeah, no, because you know, we're in a society which tells us that um you have to go to a psychologist for everything. Um, and although they're very good, uh, because I'm not disrespecting psychologists, gotta be ready for psychology too, though. They have to be ready for it, they really do. And talk therapy is not for everybody because they're not ready for it. So just be mindful of that too. Um, there are some body-based intervention stuff that I suggest everybody do does before you do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Okay, so that that's a parent of how to um get involved if your child is already part of a process. What if you're worried about your child that isn't even on the well-being radar?

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah, a lot of kids won't be on the well-being radar.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

So, as a parent, what do you do and how do you navigate the school system to support them?

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Navigating the school system really depends on what's going on for the child, right? Um But in most cases, look, if they're not on a well-being radar and they just if it's behavioral, why are they having that behavioral stuff? The school will never be able to answer that. They won't because they don't know. They're seeing that they can't control the behavior, so they'll blame the behavior. Yeah. Right. So then it's like, okay, well, what is the motivator for the behavior? You'll be surprised how many kids are actually bored in school because they understand the work and it's like this is boring. So they don't apply, right? There's just quite a few of them. You also will find um that if they're not settled, the behavior is a cry for something, but they don't know what it is, right? Uh there are kids there that will come into school and that it's the safest place for them, right? One time we got this kid that just showed up at the school, hardly ever comes to school, right? Now he shows up, it's 7:30 in the morning, seven o'clock in the morning, something like that. Got there got to work early, like I said, and this kid's standing there. And like, yo, what's going on? Haven't seen you in months, man. Where you been? We've been trying to get a hold of you. And he's like, Nah, hit the pipe, bro. I'm like, okay, you okay? And he starts bawling his eyes out, right? And I'm like, oh you okay, bud? He's like, I got nowhere to live. I'm like, oh my god, shit, bro. Oh, I could feel it now. And so we're both growing together, and I'm holding this kid, he's high as a kite. Uh, and I walk him back into school, he goes, Look, can I just sit here with you, bro? Y'all gotcha. So he just sat there in my office, did nothing, just sat there. It was very good all day. And like, this kid, where's this behavioral shit that everyone says he's got? And then you see him with his friends, and then he lives up to that behavior stuff. And then it's like, yo, come back in here. Comes back in, sits down, sits still. Hey man, while you're there, I want you to read this. And I gave him some stuff on well-being and how to support yourself, all this sort of stuff. And he read it all. Um, it was a really cool moment. Um, but then lifestyle pushed him away again, unfortunately. Um, and ended up in youth justice in some way. Um, it was quite a heartbreaking story, but um if it's behavioral, they won't know why. Now we can't say to this kid as an example, just sit in the classroom and learn. He can't. That part of the brain is turned off, he's in survival only.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah, and then when he was around his friends, he became his environment.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Yeah, it had to fit in. Had to. Yeah. If I'm tougher, bigger, stronger, then everyone will leave me alone, right? Yeah. So um the that that's a big issue too. We have to understand the motivators for the stuff that's going on in school. If it's academic, my academics uh are not quite there. What's the motivator for that? What's happening for that child to not be able to learn? You might find that it's a balance issue inside the nervous system. You balance it back, they're back, not a problem at all. So um, yeah, it's a difficult and it's a my field because a lot of parents get feel like they're getting pressured by the school because they come from a time when um teachers did have a lot of respect, and so they think that we should just listen to them and do what they tell us, but they're working inside a system that is um that's literally clinching the straws at the moment to get control back in classrooms. So it's a really difficult time for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

So, how do we help those kids or parents when parents may not be aware of what's happening for the child? So it could be, you know, friendship group change, or they've been pushed out of a friendship group. Um, because that happens quite a lot, especially with girls. Um, or there's bullying going on. Um, or there's other things happening for a child where they don't feel as though they can talk about it. How do we go about getting our child to open up so we can help them?

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Well, well.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

I don't know, it's very different for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Ask ask an easier question, mate. Come on, Matt.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Um because you you speak to parents and they will go, I had no idea that was happening for them.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

You have no idea because you're not connected to your kid. I'm sorry. Sorry to say that. You don't, you're not not emotionally connected. You might do a lot of things for your child, yeah, but don't mistake moving for progress, movement for progress. Like if I'm running around for all my kid and I do all these things for them, that doesn't mean that uh progress is happening in it at an emotional level.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

So, what are some things that would be pointers for a parent to pick up on? Like again, it'll be different for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Yeah, but then this part isn't. So you could sit there, you gotta sit there with your child, right? You don't have to say anything. Don't talk, right? Stand there with them and pay attention to what you feel emotionally and what you feel in your body, because I'm telling you, you're picking up on them. If you've walked into a space, let's just say they're in the lounge room, right? Um, and then you walk in, you sit on the couch near them, not next to them, but near them. And if you've walked into that space happy, calm, relaxed, and regulated, and then you sit on the couch, pay attention to what happens to your body. I'm telling you something, little, and emotionally, you'll pick up on what they are feeling. And then because a lot of the time most people don't trust it, they kind of let it go. And they think that it's them, that they're feeling that themselves. Then the kid will walk off, right? Next time you'll do it again, and then you'll feel a very similar thing. You'll be like, what the hell? Why do I feel this every time I sit next to my child? What the fuck's going on? Then call it out, right? So I I let's just say I feel I'm sitting next to my child and I'm feeling, oh my god, I felt really good before, but now I feel really anxious. I would always uh I tell parents to say, well, hey little Johnny, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling really anxious. What's happening? And it's a really great question because it um it separates them from it, right? Because it sounds like you're talking about yourself, and then the then the child will go, they'll either engage or they won't. But nothing.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 57:45

And that's okay, right? That's okay. But they know you know. They fucking know you know. That's enough. That's enough. Remember, we don't have to solve their problem. They have to, right? So then let them go. Then they'll go. Don't try and control it, let'll go. I'm telling you, two that and a half times. I'm talking maybe three, four times. They're starting to talk.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

They're providing a safe place for them to open up.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

But they're gonna test you. They're going to test you, just like your wife would test you. Yeah, they're going to test the shit out of you, and they'll give you little bits, little bits. And, you know, we've talked about this before in this podcast. You've got to resist the thrill to test your skill. Let them talk. Just let them talk it out, right? You don't have to try and control it, don't have to solve the problem, just let them talk it out. And it's really, really simple. The response is, hmm, that's interesting. That must have been difficult for you. Fucking let me tell you, Mom. Oh fuck, whatever. And off they go, right? Don't worry about the swearing bit. That's just the way they're expressing.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Or if they're blaming you.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

If they're blaming you, take it. Yeah, assess it.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Don't get defensive.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

No, because remember, remember, you don't deal with the truth. You only deal with perspective. Just keep that in mind, yeah? They have one perspective. We don't have to make them wrong. If they can feel safe enough to just blur shit out and you don't try and intervene in any way, they'll come back to you. But if in the past you've always tried to solve their problem or you've smothered them, I mean, you had a problem with that where you just smothered shit out. You still do. You smother the shit out of the poor kid. And then he's like, Oh my god, mom, leave me alone. Right? He doesn't know what to do. Shut up. He doesn't know what to do. Yeah, and then I'll and then I have to intervene because nobody knows how to manage that. Because you're flogging him with questions, and it's like, oh, leave him alone. But I want to know that blah blah blah. I know what you want, but he ain't ready because he can't keep up with all the 50,000 bloody questions you're throwing at him. Leave him alone, stop. And then I answer the questions for you, right? And then off he goes, right? And he off he runs and he'll run. He's like it's the quickest I've ever seen the kid move. Well, boom, he's gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Get back to the point, Luke.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

But it it is a point, right? You ask me a question, yeah. Yay, come on, calm down, mate. So it is a point because you you're wanting your you're pushing against him, right? And the idea is for him to push against you. Think about it like a cat, right? Cat walks over to a pole, they scratch themselves against the pole. What happens when the pole moves? What happens? Even you had cats. Cat don't never fucking walk away. It runs. Yeah, it gets skittish and off it goes because the pole moved. Well, let me tell you, us as parents, we are the pole, and the kids have got to scratch themselves against us, so to speak. And if we move in any direction, they're gonna be skittish. So sometimes it's better to just resist the thrill to test your skill, allow them to say what they need to say, and then pick it apart in an easy to digest way. Understand if they're heightened, forget it. Don't even bother because you're not getting anything out of it. Don't tell them to calm down because that hadn't work either.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Yeah. So then how do okay, so the the kids now spoken to us? We've got a little bit of information. I have no fucking idea what to do with this information and how to support them. I'm not at school, I'm not there. What do I do with that? How can I support them moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

If what? If you've got the information, you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

The being bullying, friends group, whatever's happening for them in that school environment that they've just disclosed to you. It was really hard for them to disclose with you. What do you do with that information? How do you support them? Because they're going back into that environment now.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

Yeah, and the environment's difficult. I think the big the biggest um the biggest decision is you know, I might go and have a chat with this with the school. The kid will say no, because they don't want them to be highlighted, but you can sneaky sneaky and nobody needs to know. Um, and the because you know, you you want your child in that meeting. Um, they're never gonna dump anybody in it. That's okay, because they don't want to make it worse for themselves, but I think that they need to be involved in the decisions. Um I would say um have a chat with school, but the toughest decision is is this the right place for me? Do we need to change schools?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

Depending on what it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

But that is really difficult because the school system, especially if you're in a state school, you can't just move schools.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Yeah, yeah, I'm going into the school.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Yeah, so um that's a challenging thing. Um, I would I would definitely meet with the school, see what's going on there, see what they can offer us. It won't be much, but see what they can offer us. And then when we're dealing with that type of stuff, understand that again, we're not dealing with the truth, we're dealing with perspective. Why is this happening to your child? Right? And it's not always external, it could be an internal process. I mean, we know a child that has been bullied, I know a child has been bullied before, and it's like the the the parents have blamed all the kids that have bullied this kid, right? And then we go, okay, well, look at the kid. Yeah, the kid is sassy, he is very direct, he's very nasty, crosses the boundaries, all bad, yeah, yeah, and then that kid is getting bullied. I don't know if that's true. I think that the kids around this this plot this kid are putting him back in his place. You've gone too far, and then it became a sport, right? So that that part there is it's a whole different problem. So now it's like, okay, well, do we need to take control of those other kids or do we need to take care of our own? Soothe your own child first before you start from mud and anything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

That's what I would say. Um, because you can throw as much money as you like, you want to stick.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Yeah. So where does the mental health practitioner come into all of this?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

Yeah, we with the mental health practitioner, it's a it's a challenge to get in there sometimes because they are capped on how many students they can see.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Um, yeah, and and they're most schools, they're not full-time. Okay, they're part-time. Uh, so that they are they're gonna be stretched. I mean, I know that there are some that um will get you know four days a week. Uh I don't know too many that have a mental health practitioner at the school for five days a week. There may be some, um, but they're they're limited. Uh so to getting in to see them is so difficult. So but they deal with very pointy end kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

So the well-being team at your your kids' schools are not there to provide counseling or psychology support.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Yeah, it depends on the school you're at. But yes, they are there to provide counseling support, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

In limited capacity.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

In a while. In a limited capacity, very limited, because they forget they're in a school. And the idea is that uh how quick can we get the kid back into class? Because that's what they're there for.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

Um, for some students, it's not feasible uh to get back into class straight away. Um, and then you have kids that will only know how to ask for help if they're in a crisis. So they put themselves in a crisis to have conversations. It's actually quite difficult.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

So the well being and mental health support in a school is operated within a system, just like the whole school system?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

Yes, but at the same time, like it's it's it's it's still very similar to External counseling. And a lot of the lot of those counselors and and mental health practitioners do great work. And they they want the best for the kids. I think there's a clash between the well-being teams in general if they're not teachers. Some schools' well-being teams are made up by teachers. They're not made up by counselors. And so if they're all made up of counselors, youth workers, or what have you, that are more allied health stuff, they will clash a little bit because it's like they're advocating for the students like this kid can't get into class. We need them there. Yeah. I need him in our office to support them. Um and then they will refer out. They'll most likely refer out to an external uh mental health provider.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Why would they do that? Because timing they can't support.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

And they may need more in-depth support.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Um, and that's fair, right? So um having chats with, but I would definitely link in well-being teams.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

Um so start there.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

You can uh yeah, start there. Um the coordinators are always the first point of call in general. Um, and then the coordinators will then refer the students to well-being. Um there that that's probably the best way of going about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Um, but yeah, we can link in school leadership as much as you can in terms of your coordinators.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

I'm gonna pivot a little bit. What about school refusers?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

School refusers, what about them?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

How do we support them? How do we get them engaged? Because, you know, with technology and the way it is and gaming, people's teens can get sucked into an online world.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

Yes, they can.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

How do how do how can we support as parents to get them off that online world and back into reality and back into school?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

How do you get a kid off chocolate?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Stop buying chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Yeah, bro. Um, but understand there's gonna be a bit of pain in that, isn't there? Because it's so used to having chocolate, right? But um that's just a difficult one.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Uh and the reasons why there's school refusing can vary as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Yeah, it can. A lot of that, a lot of that stuff is uh uh unstable households for school refusal, yeah. Um, anxiety, uh you know, the the the augmented style social circle where everything's online uh and I I don't actually have to front up and speak to anybody face to face.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

So sometimes not even a school issue, no, it's another issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

Pretty courts at the time, it's not. Yeah, it's not. Uh uh it becomes a school issue. And there are a lot of different uh services that can help support that through the school system. Um in Victoria, they've got a place called Navigator. Navigator is really difficult to get into because if you are sitting around 15, 16 years old, you're gonna get nothing. Okay. Because at 17, you can leave the league legally leave school. So they go, that's the too hard basket. Yeah, let's focus all our attention on the younger kids so that we don't have that problem when we get to 15, 16 years old. So uh that that's tough on. That's it, but it's it's a service that's there, available, navigator. Um, a lot of the school system doesn't really talk much about that stuff, yeah, but it's definitely there.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

So I think it's important for parents to know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

And if you're a VCE student, there are lots of things that the school can do to help support you. If you're a VCE student here in Victoria, uh everything is run by VCAR, um, and it's not run by the school. So the all most of the curriculum is run by the VCAR, all the schools run by VCAR. So there are lots of different things that you can do, like non-scored when you're not doing the the the um the exams, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

I think that was a thing when I was back in high school.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

Yeah, I don't even know either. But you know what, that there are a lot of schools that don't uh schools aren't never going to promote that stuff because they want scores, right? Um it reflects on the school and all that sort of stuff. But for some students, they can't do exams, they struggle through them. So um that's one space. There are C's applications, there's all these different applications that will help um with evidence that will help you um uh support the uh ATA scores that you will receive because you've gone through some stuff like anxiety or depressive stuff, or you've linked in with well-being, you've had heaps of support in that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

And it's up to the individual to ask all that stuff. The school wasn't rightly promoted.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

That's kind of a shame.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

Depending on the school, I mean, I know that there are schools that actually say, um, okay, guys, if you need a CS application, here's the application, fill it in. Uh, because it'll be assessed, it's not automatic. So it'll be assessed. Uh, but that was a big thing in COVID. Everyone got a CS application. I don't think that's the way it is now, but there's a lot of different uh things that in VCE that they can do to support you that is very different to general class in year seven, year eight, year nine.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

Interesting. All right. All right, so let's move along to our toolkit. I mean, there's lots of things that we've spoken about.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

Everything, everything we've just gone through is toolkit.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

I think it's um parents actually allowing the space and knowing your kids to pick up when something's not right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:41

Yep. Um, it's tough though, because you got your own stuff you've got to work through.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Um, and understand monkey see, monkey do. I can't say that enough, man. Monkey see, monkey do. Take care of your stuff and your child will will um copy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

It's also knowing that the kids can become their environment.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

Um, and take them out of that environment. They're not always that that, you know, troublemaker as such. No. Um, diagnosis is following straight through. Yep. Um, and you know, it's really important to you engage. Engage with school, communicate.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

Communicate all the time. You they'll get annoyed with you. But he communicate because at the end of the day, if you don't advocate for your child, who will?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:25

And it's all about how you communicate uh you communicate and advocate. If you become aggressive, they will shut you down. And they can. They don't have to take your calls at all, they won't. Um, but if I do it in a more of a professional way and go, look, this is how I'm feeling. I'm feeling like this, I'm I'm feeling like I'm not being heard. I feel like my child is not getting the support that you promised. Um, we're doing this stuff here to support what we talked about before. Um, how can we make it even better? Right. And make it sure you use the language. We being a you're a part of it, not you as a school. What are you gonna do? Because every time you say that to anybody, everyone's like, you know what? Go fuck yourself every time. And the school, don't worry, they're not gonna swear at you, but you walk out of that room, they're gonna go straight away, go fuck yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Yeah, right. I'm sure most of us do that anyway. Yeah, man. Yeah, all right, fantastic. Anything else to talk with?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

I could talk about this till the cows come home.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

It's something you're very passionate and I am because you know why?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

It's fucked.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

We're asking so much for the kids, and none of the adults are doing any of the work for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Yeah, that fucking annoys me. You're a big advocate of the kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Bad uh it annoys the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

Yeah, and it's one of the reasons why you left the school system because it was basically a system. Yeah, there was so much more that you could give, but you couldn't in the system.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

No, 100% that's true. That's true. Yeah. So anyway, if you want to know more, um, hit me up. If you look on our website, there is a program there that you can buy. It's 200 bucks and it and it's all about it's called Resilient Families. Um, it's all video based. You can check that out, uh, and you'll get a whole heap of information on how you can make it even better at home. Um, and then help your child in the school space. So check that out. Uh 200 bucks, you get it forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

So yeah, it's pretty, pretty cheap, really. It's like it's one one session of counseling. Um, all right, Lucky, moving along. One achievement and one goal this last week. So, how have you found your um face-to-face training? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

I'm fucked.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

I'm cooked, man. I'm straight up cooked. Uh when we when we sit down here to record this, I'm like, I wonder how this is gonna go. Yep. I'm a bit fried.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Especially when you talk about subject that you're fucking annoyed with.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

Yeah, well, you know what? You it You're pretty good. We when you when you said it to me, I'm like, Oh, why today? Why why today? But um, yeah, rev me up. Uh yeah, it's been good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:03

So, what have you achieved?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

I've learned so much, but at the same time, I think to myself, all this learning, will I remember it all?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

Well, you put a lot of pressure on yourself. Do you think that you were able to show some of the things that you were worried about?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

Yeah, I think so. Um, like I said, I've got the courage to fuck it up. Um, and I'll learn from that. So uh yeah, it's been good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

You know, you're not a small sky, it's not like you can hide. You always get singled out for something, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:32

And you know what? I'm in a class with all females too.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

So I remember the last one the uh you got you gave me an example of you know, they like, oh look at this muscle definition. Luke, show us your muscles, lift your shirt.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Yeah, it's like you take your shirt off. I'm like, are you feeding him? No, like mate, and I actually said I actually said that, and like, come on, man, my tits will be hanging out on the floor, bro. Stick me along.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

To be fair, your back muscles are pretty cool. So anyway, anyway, um, one goal.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

One goal. Um uh I I'm actually moving over to a new system in my business. Yep. Um, so I want to make sure that that's all clean and good to go. Um, it's it's quite a task um that will probably require audits. Um, so I need to get all that press pressing issue out, I gotta get that done. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Just put on the back burner because of everything else.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

It has been, but I've got to kind of do it, I can't do it all in my shop.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:30

You know what I mean? I can't just go click on my fingers and it's all done.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

Yeah, it's a bit of a painstaking process.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Yeah, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

Um, so I actually achieved my goal last week. Um so I was able to go to work while while the kids were still on school holidays and you were unavailable. And mother-in-law actually helped out because she works next door. So while I was in my meetings, um I was able to drop a million or off to have a little bit of granny time and they had a a late lunch and we're able to go together. So it was a win-win.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

Yep. Um, you know, shame it wasn't last week. She had last week off, so she could have just had her. Um, but you know, we we make it work and we the juggling is real. Um and a goal, oh Jesus, I'm I'm worse than you. You like throwing mud at me, but look, my my goal is is it's not really my goal, but it's something I I told Amelia that I'll teach her how to teach her uh tie her school her shoelaces over the school holidays, and I failed at that because we're just busy and then she has sleepovers, which was great for her, but you know, I don't expect somebody else to help teach her. So it's a goal for me would be to get her to do that within the next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

Boy, that's a big girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:45

She picks up things really quickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:47

She I know she does.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

Really, really quickly. Like I remember when we took Patrick's training wheels off, and that was a fucking disaster. Amelia picked it up first shot, and she's been going ever since.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:58

Monkey see, monkey dooba, because she's got a brother to watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

Well, he's not the best person to watch. We established that he rides a lot. He buys it to stationary fucking rocks, so you know, do not learn from Patrick. Um, poor kitty cops, isn't he? Yeah, it does. So, yes, I'm pretty sure Amelia will be able to put so it's it's a goal for her to achieve, but I'm facilitating that. So that's a goal.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

Good one. Good one. Wow, cool. This is a big episode. I do apologize. We talking about something very important, but something very passionate for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:30

Um, I'm usually on looks back about trying to keep him to an hour.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

It was such a big it's such a big topic, and we could continue to talk about and break it down even further. But um, thank you all so much for listening in. Hope you got something out of it. If you've got questions, because some people will have questions, please reach out, likes bumps, spruises, at gmail.com, or if you go to the website, you'll you'll have contact details on our website, uh lukeeleet.com.au. Reach out through socials, um, because you know, the it it's a big issue that's happening, and a lot of parents feel alone in it all. Yeah. Um, let me tell you, you're not, we can work through it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

Yeah, and I think it's important to remember that COVID killed us. Yeah, COVID killed us, and a lot of those babies coming through COVID are starting school now, um, which is a challenge in itself. And a lot of those COVID kids um are starting to go through VCE. So, no, it's it's it took a lot. It took a lot, and so it it shows at school.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:33

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:34

It does. So let's keep the conversation going. Have it have a talk to you kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

Roger there. Roger that. Thank you, Joe. I guess um, what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

See you next Tuesday. No, no, no. Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

That's Joel, mate. Let's see what you're doing. See what I'm looking at ya. See when I'm looking at you. All right, take care.