Being Human with Justin Zelones

 In this episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Luke and Joanne have a special guest in Justin Zelones. Justin who is a leader in his sporting club, discusses how he formed a great team to foster an inclusive environment where people feel they belong. 

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into: 

• Understanding the power of community
• How to feel connected to a community where you feel safe
• Knowing how to communicate your needs within a community
• Finding the right community for you

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🎧 New episodes drop every Tuesday — let’s open up about the challenges we all face, one real chat at a time.
 
 

Credits:
 
The Inspiration by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon
 
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
 
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
 
Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/
 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Life's full of bumps and bruises. I'm Luke Lee Tet, counsellor and life coach, joined by Joanne Lee Tet, mum and HR professional, living what seems to be a never-ending roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Each week we discuss strategies to navigate the bumpy road of life.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

With practical approaches to difficult life moments, we bring real life options to the challenges everyday people face.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome to Life's Bumps and Bruises.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

We're glad you're here.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I'm good, thanks. Yourself?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Yeah, good, man. We've got a special guest today, which we'll introduce later, but I thought we'd best do a rewind and see how we go over the week. How'd you go with your goals? Do you remember what they were?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Um It was a goal was to do something for myself, which was to get back to painting.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Mm-hmm. Oh, you did, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

I did. I it was very it doesn't even look like I did anything. But I definitely did do something. Um yeah, it's all long way to go, really.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

I can't even remember my goal from last week. I got no idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Um I'm sure I just it wasn't study, I think it was more around I got no idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Yeah, me neither. I I I probably need to re-listen and write this stuff down now.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Um, yeah. Terrible, terrible work. Um but either way, show's gotta go on, right? Yeah. So before we get into seeing our uh speaking with our guest, um thought we would discuss something that sort of come up. Um, in our last episode on multitasking, we discussed uh finances in relationships and how one person takes the responsibility of all the finances and the other one lives life like there's a money tree. Um we also established which roles we both have.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yep. Yep, we both know Luke. He thinks there's the money tree.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Okay, Luke knows there's not a money tree, but spends like the reason. Um, but no, we've had some interesting feedback. Um, we've had some different people calling and texting um, people that we know, and it was really interesting that the feedback is pretty much spot on to what we were talking about. And it was like, oh, are you actually, you know, watching us and are you inside our marriage? And you know, is this about us and previous conversations? And it's absolutely not. This is something that someone that wasn't connected to these people provided to us, and it's actually an issue that we have in our relationship as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yeah, and I think I got about four messages, um, a couple of phone calls, and uh, and they were like, Oh, Luke, you triggered me when we when you talked about stuff. Uh I thought you you, you know, you spoke to my partner and then they told told you to talk about this thing that they were experiencing. I'm like, no, absolutely not. You don't even know this person who gave us this topic. Uh, I do apologize if we did trigger you, please reach out. Um, let's have a chat about it because um uh it's obviously a big issue. And I think that when you really think about it, a lot of families and partners and relationships are gonna have very similar issues. They're just gonna do it in their own way, right? And that's right. And I think that uh that was definitely one that triggered some people.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Yeah, it's actually for me, it's warming to know that it's not just me feeling this way with their partner that spends the money. Um, and that there are others that are in the same boat, and it's definitely not about triggering, it's about let's have a conversation and then now what?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Yes, now what's a good one. Now what's a good one? Always remember that. So this happened now what.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Um But it it just shows that what we're talking about actually sits with others and others can see that this happens in their lives as well. So it's actually good. The feedback has been great as well.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Yeah, and I think uh there was uh some feedback I got during the week about um how uh it you know the the the feel of the of the podcast has changed a bit since you've come on board, and it's more of a relationship type uh podcast as well, which is they found beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Oh, a relationship. Well, we're all fucked up, Luke. So I'll be taking your advice from us.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Yeah, well, we all have our challenges, right? Um but uh yeah, I think um I think yeah, right. I think it has turned a little bit closer to a development stage of we're beyond the mental health difficult stuff that uh both myself and Joel discussed. Um, and now we're moving more into how we do it communally and uh with our relationships as well and how that all plays out.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So everything we've discussed has a big impact on mental health.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

It does. Does mental health isn't necessarily just felt by that person who uh is living with it, uh it's felt with and by their partners and the people that are closest to them. And if we're not if they're not on board with the support, then it actually makes you feel even more lonely. So um I think relationships are a big part of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

The other uh biggest topic we spoke about, which didn't get as many uh as much feedback, uh, was multitasking.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, um, I was a little bit cringy coming out of um recording with you about multitasking. I felt extremely stupid um because I kind of proved myself wrong. Um, so what I did is I went to Dr. Google to try and prove you long and go, well, you know what? Fuck Luke, I'm going to go and get some evidence um to prove you wrong that multitasking is really a thing. And if anything, it just reinforced everything you were saying. Um, that essentially the brain can't do multitasking. It can do different things, but if you want to do one thing well, it's basically not multitasking. It just can't do it.

SPEAKER_05 6:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

So um, yeah, re-emphasize that once again. Luke is right and did or not hear me say that very often.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

That's on recording too. Get around it.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

But you know what? Luke fucked up with multitasking too, because this is our second take. Because he didn't press record, because he was doing something now. So, you know, he can't multitask either.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Hey, I told you I can't. I told you I don't even try, but I obviously over overlooked that bit. Um, yeah, this is the second time we're doing the intro. Um, because uh I didn't hit the record button. We got through it and it's like, oh, we have to do it again. And the looks I got from Joanne. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, so multitasking, big fat fail is actually called prioritization.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Yes, yes. Well, and we work out that you don't know what multitasking really is. So that's good.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yeah. So anyway, yeah, right along.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah, let's um let's move into our topic for today.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

All right, so we've got a very special guest here today. Uh Joe, why we have this special guest here today?

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Uh, today we've all invited uh somebody along to discuss the power of community and mental health. We feel as though they actually have built a very strong um community sporting club and we want to deep dive or go a bit deeper into that.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

And just so we understand, we're not talking about sport, we're using sport as uh a vessel to be able to bring people into something. So when we talk about and and a being belonging to something bigger than ourselves. So when we talk to when I have clients in here who is struggling with anxiety or depression, uh, a lot of the time they don't have community outside of themselves and they don't belong to anything bigger. So they get stuck in this hamster wheel of this negative thinking, negative emotions, and it all falls apart. And then we end up having this conversation anyway, around what hobbies can you get involved in. And we want to talk about the power of community. Uh, we're using, we're gonna talk a little bit about sport, but essentially, if you can just see past the sport and look into the community that uh our guest has done um and created, I think that that's um that's really the the lesson we want to take out of today.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Because not everyone's sporting and not everyone deals and and goes to a sporting club feeling oh, I have to play sport, I can't get involved because I don't play sport, but it's more about the community. You don't have to play the game to or any game to be involved in a club because you could do back of house, you could just be there from a social perspective.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

100%, 100%. So if we can welcome Justin Zelonas here in the room. Thank you, Justin.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

Welcome, thank you very much, guys, and well done with my surname Luke. That was get around it. You nailed it. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

He brought us it a few times.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Yeah, I've got no idea. And you know what? When we hear the other people around us talk about you, it's like I don't even know if that's right. I I actually had to ask you. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, thank you so much for being here, Justin. Uh, I know we've had some recording issues today.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Uh we won't go into that. Maybe we'll later.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

All my fault. But anyway, um, thank you for being here. I we asked you here because of the community you've created. Uh, tell us a little bit about it and how did you go about um creating uh the leadership, I guess, in the community to um facilitate such a great space with the people you have.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Okay, uh, so I guess off the top, um, I didn't come in with a blueprint. Um, I simply uh wanted to play this sport and found found some way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So can I ask you what what is your sport?

SPEAKER_04 9:40

So my my sport is softball. Um so I grew up playing that, um, that and baseball uh in WA. And then I moved to Melbourne in 2017. And you know, how do you how do you fit into a place where you find find something that some something that you do um that you know you have something in common with someone else? So I played softball forever, so that was the easy entry point for me to find a place in Melbourne, yep, where I fit outside of work.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Nice, nice. And then because of the community you have, and you I I I look from the outside in and go, um, if I look at the other clubs, right? Each club has its own um way of going about things. Uh so the club I'm involved in are more um, I would say less inclusive, more winning style, I would say, purely because of the high-performing athletes we have in our club. Um, not to say that you you don't because you still do, but it's um it's more about the the cohesiveness and the the the structure of your club so different. Uh what was it that you guys were trying to achieve when you guys brought your club together?

SPEAKER_04 10:54

So um what we uh what we wanted to do um is find a place where people felt they could belong. Um so we're looking mostly new people. So you your club, like you said, you've got uh high performance people, so you look at winning. Um and you've also got a lot of experienced coaches. So our space for recruiting, well, it wasn't gonna be, it wasn't gonna be established people necessarily to start with, at least anyway. Um, so we had to look at new people new to the sport or so many. I played this in high school. Yeah, yeah. And now I'm now I'm in my 30s and my kids are at an age where I've got some uh time for myself and I can go back and do some of the things I enjoyed when I was younger. So our first our first team was actually an open women's team, and the age range was 18 to 65. Like it was crazy. It's crazy. So yeah, very different experiences, abilities, and whatnot. But it that got us running, that got us up and running. Um, and then when you have those age ranges, you've got kids that are mums playing um or partners and dads get involved as well. So you're very, very different um skill skill based than your club, yeah, sure to start with. And I mean, obviously, your club 30, 40 years of building to that. So we really were at ground zero with that. Um, and then the next part was okay, well, how do we how do we make sure the club's around for a long time? And that's that's juniors, and how do we grow the club? Well, juniors is the juniors is the key to it.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So on that, I mean, obviously there's lots of different sports, lots of different um juniors getting involved. How do you get their parents involved? Because there's lots of parents around junior sports that just want to watch their kid, that don't want to get involved. But I found that your club, there's a lot of parents that do get involved, and then it's not just little things, they get right involved to the club. How did you how did you get get them to to do that? Yeah, that volume. We really struggle, and I know like Luke, you RPC spoke from a we got more high performing, but we really struggled to get those parents involved.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

So what um what we do straight up, it's we've got to, we had to have a volunteer culture because one person will burn out and it's not a very it's not sustainable, and it also doesn't set a very good example to anyone going, oh, I'd really love to get involved, but I can see that guy's involved, and he works at this 70 hours a week. And he quit his job to do it, you know, it's not it's not sustainable or and it doesn't encourage anyone else. So um, very much a volunteer culture. So from day one with our juniors, it was all right, everyone's gonna have a go go at something. This week you're the team manager, and that role came about because we were having problems with dogs in the park and our kids going to pack dogs instead of coming up to the plate. Well, we we've got issues with our Sun Chosen Butterfly, so there you go. So it's a universal problem. What was that topic you did uh why why boys idiots or something?

SPEAKER_02 14:15

And it's so dumb, yeah, it wasn't that.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

There you go. It's not just boys. Um, so we had that, and then we said, well, this was under 12. So very basic stuff. Let's have someone scoring. So every week, a new parent. They did it twice twice a year, and then on days where we hosted, hey, there's not many of us. We need people in the canteen, um, we need people setting up dimes. It can't just be one person because it just doesn't work. So early on we said, okay, it's a volunteer culture, and we've had people along the way push back, and we've sort of had to say, this is this is how a club works. If it's not for you, we're very, very welcome for you to go somewhere else where it's where you can just play, but we can't do it because it's not sustainable and it's not fair on everyone. Um, to this last year, what we did was because our club had, as you know, crazy growth over the last couple of years. So what we did with our registrations is we made um a registration point where it said, we need you to volunteer for two tasks. And we listed out all the tasks as it was you just pick the two, is that's going to be your volunteer space. Um so you know, that's everything. That's people to umpire, people to coach, people to do canteen, people to do fundraising. Uh yeah, the whole sort of gamut of how do we make a club run? What are the big overarching areas that we need people to fill space for? So that's what we did. So when it came to host days, we set up a grouping game changer, um, which was canteen bar uh when we had a one person from the committee managed to the canteen, set up a roster, and we said, here it is. If you can't do the days you're rostering or the times, here's all the rosters. Please you arrange to switch your one with someone else. So that it wasn't simply a go back to the canteen manager and go, oh, now you need to find someone else. It's like, no, put the bonus back on the people who said they'd volunteer, and everyone's cool with that because no one, no one pushed back. Everyone was like, just put it in the chat. I can't do this one, but I can do on the on the third host day. I can do this. Who wants can swap with me on that day? And for the most part, we never had a problem in that. Some days it didn't work out, something would come up. Yeah, uh, but there's always plenty of people around, and the juniors love getting in the canteen for whatever reason. Um, yeah, operating the square and selling stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

You know what I'll do you think that that has allowed your club to the members of your club to feel like they own the club.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

Yeah, it does bring in ownership because you're doing a task, you're not simply turning up, playing ball and going, uh, you're giving back. Are you helping the club grow and be sustainable? Um, and you you've got your you've invested your time in more than just you. Yep. So that's you know, my opinion, that brings community um and definitely ownership, like you said.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

That's a good one. And so I what I noticed is that um when we talk about the actual community itself, your community in terms of personality-wise, they're all quite similar, aren't they? I mean, yes, you still have the the higher achievers that want to do bigger things. Um, you have some that are a little bit louder than others. But in general, when I when whenever we have played against you and I've coached against you, the people that, especially the juniors and the parents, the parents are very, very um supportive of, and and you would expect that, but they're not just supportive of their individual child, they're supportive of the team and the club. Uh, and and I noticed that personality-wise, they're not the parents, the kids seem to be very similar to each other. Would that be fair assessment?

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Uh, to be honest, I haven't really thought about that. What have you seen, Leek, as far as what what what are the what are the characteristics you're picking up on?

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Yeah, so I noticed that um the the people in your club, they're quite um, they're all pretty intelligent. Where when we talk about most athletes, uh they had it, they've got very narrow focus, right? Um, and they just want to win and they want to succeed. Uh, but then we have the other side of the coin where we say, okay, well, looking at your players in general, uh, I wouldn't say that they're massively athletic, right? But I mean they can definitely play softball. You don't need to be an athlete to play softball. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Um, but but the uh they they they're very welcoming, they're a lot warmer, they're not necessarily looking at how I can take this position from somebody else. They're they're a little bit more, I don't know, cohesive and um and respectful of each other. When when you go to a more of an athletic, high-performing type of club, it's like, no, I hate that person because I want that position. You know, and that's that motivated to knock them out of it. Um, but I noticed personality-wise, um, because of that, they're not as um, I don't know, I think they're more friendly, if that makes sense. I don't know. Yeah, do you feel that at the club that there's a little bit more friendliness than the city? Yeah, I feel friendly oriented.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Yeah, fairly welcoming. Like, well, for me, you come down and everyone there have a chat to you, um, which is good and bad when you're trying to do things, but I don't know, they're they're they're a good group. Whether it's um something that was set organically from the outset, perhaps, um, so that when new people come in, they see what the environment is and they go, okay, well, this is how this place operates, and they pick up on it and they behave that way, or whether it's just that you know the people are already there and you know, like attracts like, perhaps, uh some of that. Um, and also with as you said, oh, I want that spot, I need to get this guy, you know, the dog eat dog stuff. I don't I don't think we've got the the history of players there to to have that. We certainly haven't got at the higher level that being displayed. So, you know, leadership starts from the top, whatever you do at the top reflects down below. Um so I don't think that's that presence is there where it's yeah, yeah. We're being being shown and displayed or modelled. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

So I want to go back a little bit. So you you moved to Melbourne back in 2017, and you know, there's pre-COVID, there's lots of clubs running around Melbourne. How did you choose to go to the club that you're at and build it? Um, that club was already established.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Should we give them a plug? Actually, we should. West Coburg Redbacks softball club out of Keeler Park Association if you're looking for a ball player, a place to play a ball and enjoy a community, hit them up.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Um we better flood that they were already around, but they were quite small. Yes. How how did you choose them to go to? What were you looking for?

SPEAKER_04 21:27

So, how did I how did I choose them or did they choose me? So I actually it was it's really hard to find softball back in 2017. It it is a bit easier now if you know to go to the Club Finder on softball, if you know to do that. Um, and you know, you you should just Google, I want to play softball, and you should be able to get to Club Finder fairly easily. Um but how did I do it? Like I emailed, I had a look, I found a map that showed me where the associations were, and I emailed of them and I didn't hear from anyone for I don't know a year. Uh oh really and then I went and then I went and played Pan Packs with my mates from WA up in on the Goldie in 2018.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

I hadn't played since I left Perth so it's now two years and they went oh by the way we're playing A grade so this competition is loaded with Australians ex-Australians and I'm just like I haven't played for that long and to be honest I wasn't that I wasn't an A grade talent to start with you know and here I am 45 years old at the time going and having absolute bullets being hit at me um or pitch past me before I couldn't you know blink of an eye so I came back to me I'm like I've got to sort this I've got to sort it out so yeah Google Facebook found found Redbacks amongst others and I messaged and I got a message back on Messenger it's probably um 11 o'clock in the evening it's pretty late at night and oh yeah we've got a club uh yeah sorry we haven't got men's we work with another club um and there uh there's a game it was late in the week there's a game there's a game tomorrow um but you don't have to play if you just want to train first like I'm here to play yeah yeah yeah train yeah no you don't train at this age we just don't play we just play all right yeah no worries I'm there tell me where it was and so the first game's at Sunshine um and then I'm looking for the for the president of Redbacks which wasn't their home ground um so I don't know I'm just where where is this person all right it's good I could see red I figured that was red backs so I eventually eventually found her and yeah got it got involved started playing nice nice well then and well based on that experience you had lucky stuck around yeah but uh on top of that when we look at that you've changed our whole process now for all the members that come into your club now haven't you yeah it's fair I don't look around for nothing anymore they know who you are that's it they do yes so I've done a lot of work in what is it what does it need to look like what do we want what do we want to achieve what what have we learned from the everyone there now like what do we learn from the rest of our lives is what we need to bring in to make this a place where people want to come where people want to stay and like you said from the top it's not just about it doesn't just have to be about softball it's about being around a community feeling feeling like you're part of something bigger than you I think that's very important um and it's probably why I had a career change years ago I was I've got to something's gotta give something's gotta be I've got to feel better about what I do so and and this is this is an avenue where um I found it and in in building this and I think on some of your previous podcasts you said um if something's going on in your life mental physical whatever be curious go and study it go and find out about it so I started looking for places and uh you know websites people to talk to about how you do these things um so yeah I've not you know I've studied this for years and years and I'm coming in as some expert it's just be curious all right we've got this going on how do we solve that who do we talk to and yeah a lot of it is yeah actually just talking and being around everyone in that place comes from different diverse experience and and and whatnot so yeah you can bring in stuff from the outside into your club doesn't need to be sport what works elsewhere and so if we if we're looking at that I mean that a lot of mental health stuff now that we've understand your community a lot of mental health stuff for an individual will get uh um overlooked they kind of fly under the radar so to speak and uh and and there are cues that you can pick it but inside a a sporting organization a little harder and really um what I like about the club that you have is and I wish we could do the same thing but it's a a little bit harder for the types of community we have and the type of community we've created um is that even if a person in your club flew under the radar they would still feel connected something bigger than themselves. And uh I really enjoy that but have there been times when you've had mental health uh people experiencing some mental health issues or some emotional dysregulation issues that you guys have to manage and then how did you manage it?

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah okay so you've met softballers uh so um I think we're all a little different. Yeah we we are but our our sport being a bit niche as well um and you know it's not as big as a footy or a cricket or all the big sports where the the more athletic uh kids people tend to come into softball is a really good entry point for people wanting to try something new um which means they've come a lot of the times they've come from a background where I didn't succeed in this I didn't fit in here um I do like sport I want to find a place so I think we we attract um some of the more sort of anxious people and we and yeah I found that we uh that we that softball generally attracts the in-betweeners yeah so to speak yeah it's a smaller minority but it it's an in-betweeners yeah so we I I agree we're we're very much an island of misfit toys yeah um so we have we have the I notice there's a bit of anxious people with the anxiety tend to find us but people with some neurary spiciness tend to find us as well um so the the anxiousness comes up a lot particularly for particularly for kids um and I know we've had a few and sometimes it's just getting them on the diamond is is really hard or getting to play like in their age group is another one like so we've had we've had kids that should be playing under 12s under 14s um and they are quite a bit older than some of the kids playing t-ball but they need to be in a spot where they feel a bit safer um and our whole competition is actually really good all the clubs involved in a competition do that well no one's no one ever pushes back and says no no this is the age it's like no let's let's look at the person let's look at the ability um where can they fit I mean I think that's another good thing about softball is we can't afford to go you don't fit the mold the other way it's like we have to work hard for every single member every club works hard for every single member they've got in so you need to adapt. So you know how do we help them we talk to the parents we again just just chat it doesn't have to be softball like ideally it's probably not softball it's like what else are you interested in what's going on um working out who are their friend groups in there making sure they find find a place so that that helps knowing yeah it's just building that relationship building that trust so that um I find anyway that yeah it's the anxious the anxious kid knows that okay everything's gonna be all right because my coach has got my back or my teammates have got my back and they can settle in and then they get on the diamond and then they're trying different things.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

I had I had one player who uh wants to be wants to be a pitcher so we work on pitching a lot when it comes to the game don't pitch me we'll lose if that's it really doesn't matter we've got the competition isn't big enough we're all making finals even if we lose this game yeah we'll make them finals it's gonna be okay but you need to we need to they do but you can't kind of say that uh tell them what they need because pushes them back further um give them opportunities oh I'll have a go now all right sweet let's do it yep let's get you out there so that that's with anxiety right in you you would know well we actually had a player one time we were we were coaching at national level uh under 14s and the player wouldn't it he just couldn't get on the field just couldn't he was so anxious felt like he was going to vomit before the game uh and we we allowed him to settle in gave him a day so he missed two games and he just sat on the bench and he was doing okay and then I'm like all right buddy you're going on the field and he's like no I can't do it I feel sick I go get swell what throw up on a field he goes I can't throw up on a field yeah you can we'll just clean it man it's all good you you're okay I just kind of need to push you out there he's like oh but I I feel sick cool throw up on the field it's okay and then I I gave him two choices either you go out there by yourself or I'm gonna stand next to you the whole game the umpire won't let you I'll talk the umpire into it it's okay all right and uh and he's like oh I'll do it myself goes out there never threw up on the field he he I think the first play literally goes to him like oh could it have happened worse but at the same time he catches the ball throws it back in he was all happy after that um and I find it really interesting that because we get the in-betweenness okay and the anxiety and all that sort of mental health stuff that a lot of them are feeling they show up to a sport that is completely um uh governed by failure it you literally if it the the if you've ever watched softball or baseball it's literally whoever fails less wins it's not whoever succeeds more wins hardly ever like that so you know if you like give an example if if somebody hits gets three safe hits out of 10 they're rocking the ball they're playing really well right so that means they failed seven times and it's funny how the most anxious feel the most secure in our sport why do you reckon that is good is a good because I don't know if I'm putting you thinking about it that way you are here you're right you're you're failing well more often and yeah and if you're doing well three times out of ten like that that's not a pass mark usually anywhere right outside of sport so why is that why why is that um so it's maybe being given permission to fail it's okay to fail yeah um and not yeah we're not we're not gonna get mad or because we know it's like what the answer is as far as the the percentages go.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

So um that actually that's one of the things I if you look at our website um on the registration page we put right up the top it's like this is this is a culture we're trying to build it's okay to fail we'll find we'll we'll find success and winning will come when everyone's feeling like yeah there's no repercussion for failing. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

And I see that like when we when we play T ball when we have the real little kids out there you know there's no outs in T ball everyone gets on regardless. But if a kid doesn't feel like I don't want to bat or I don't want to field it's okay. Yeah. And when you feel like you want to jump back in. That's okay. And sometimes you've got more parents on the field than kids directing kids sometimes you've got kids running the wrong way and you know it's just it's just fun for everyone and that's where I feel is like the gun comes down to it to its purest where you're just having fun and the rules don't really matter. It's all about fun. And then you build on those skills and then you start teaching them the rules as they go up but you look at under 12s the coaches are still on the field still directing there there is no like there is no failure. It's all about let's have fun inclusion it's all about everyone's welcome regardless of how they're feeling and if you're not feeling like you're in that space to be able to play how can we include you in a different way and it's just that safety net.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

And that's what community creates right yeah but there is another side of community that we do need to talk about and that's the negative side right there are there are downsides to having community that is fun like that and that is the fun police right the fun police they're everywhere and I'm sorry as much as we try to push everybody into who comes into this room try to push them into hobbies you're going to run into the fun police at a hobby you are 100% and that's more about how do we navigate that the if we look into any sport any hobby any community there is a person there at least one generally a group but at least one that rules are for everybody right um who tries to follow all the rules and push everybody just so you know just throwing this out there they've probably got some stuff going on too but um if we look at it how do we navigate that I mean you will you guys would have had issues of that nature before with certain people um whether it was big whether it was small whether it was quiet whether it was loud you you would have had that just like everybody else how do you manage that in a community to make sure that everybody still feels like they're connected yeah so you've got to I find we've got to have conversation we've got to talk um I got to know where you're coming from uh and you're right there's there's people who very much need rules structure to feel safe 100% um that doesn't make them bad people no no absolutely it it doesn't um but if where you're veering away from the playbook um and in sport I think you've got to have flexibility right you've got to have flex particularly in games right where things are going not the way you planned yeah you've got to all right how do we get ourselves out of this jam how do we do that it it goes it goes for everything um so what are we what are we trying to achieve in the sport um so having the conversation back is all right okay I know this is XYZ um well why are we changing well well actually our goal our goal is this the rules are set up for that um but sometimes things happen that we can't foresee.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Yep and literally just happened a couple years ago that's right so how do we how do we flex in the moment to make sure we get the outcome we want and and this is so those things very rules very much like contracts which is my background um so contractors as well those rule books contracts sit in the bottom drawer until no one can agree on anything anymore yeah because we're all going well there's fair and there's the rules they're not always the same thing. So going back to the people who need the rules need the structure or it's that conversation where you've got to try and well make them feel safe make them feel like make them know because you've got to be genuine that what you're flexing to is in the best interest and here's why you're doing it you're not trying to be deceptive you're trying to get the best outcome for the team the competition the whole thing it's bigger than it's bigger than one person.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Yeah it is isn't it I mean and I guess that they're gets thrown out sometimes you know because of that need to to um contribute to a community and not necessarily winning right it's not always about winning it's more about uh contributing I need to contribute at a certain level um for myself for the people around me all that sort of stuff um and it doesn't matter what community you're in you all see these people the uh and I I reckon there've been times when I've been that person too been a bit of a pain in the ass I would say is probably the easiest way and nicest way of saying no you've never been a pain in the ass anyone ever I like and I'm the antagonist for sure 100% um and I would say that um there's certain levels of uh that I that that people want to to meet inside those communities and when they're not medium then then all this other stuff just comes flooding out that creates an alienation for everybody else around them and they can be quite toxic and I like what you're saying there it's more about how do how do I communicate that that that is happening to the people that can make it make decisions and make changes because if you don't I need everybody to hear this one because a lot of people don't get it is that despite all the superhero movies that are out there there is not a person in this world who can read lines I don't care if there is a person can you come on the show so we can quiz you because I'll tell you what I haven't met that person yet um and I know there are some people that fly around with their Superman capes and stuff like that. I think they know fucking everything. I'll tell you now you don't the that person there that that feels like they need their their mind read I'm sorry your needs are not going to get met no matter what community you're in. Right so find the person that can that can help you guide you through your community and communicate your needs to them because I mean I I know with you Justin if I come to you I was a part of your club and I said to you okay this is what I need and then you will tell me the whole list of things that go we can do this we can't do that. This is how we can help you this is how you can help us help you. And I like that notion I I know I know that we've had conversations in the past between the two of us were quite lengthy because I talked too much but um we've had conversations in the past where that exact conversation is basically happening in a roundabout way would you agree with that? Yeah for sure plenty of plenty of conversations around that yeah 100% and uh which is why I want to join you is like the the key to to community essentially is how do we all feel as one and then you have the opposite side where it's like okay well how do I sit at the top of the tree right inside a community that happens a lot for a lot of people too uh how do you deal with that that that person that comes into your community and says uh uh I want to perform at a certain level and you know uh tries to run the show because you're surely you've experienced that who wants to run the show you say they want the glamour of running the show but don't actually want to run a show yeah good question um so like I might be a coach I might be a player I might be a parent I mean we've all experienced that parent for sure yeah yeah as you notice we all just went mmm yeah yeah from a parent point of view you've got to direct him into a doing task yeah do that be good at that that's your please own that yeah distract them by busy work right not always um you still gotta have those it's it still comes down to those conversations and being being honest um about what the place is what you can do what you can't do and setting up those boundaries um I'm not sure if we've got anyone super pushing pushing that at the moment in our club um you're an outsider you might go oh yeah well you've got some surprises coming Justin um I've certainly had um I've certainly had the parent parents prior to this club um and players actually um even even at this club just players oh why don't I play here so okay we've got 12 people on this team I can put you there then I have a problem there and a problem there and a problem there your skill set um and the skill set of people around you means to give us the best chance um to compete in this game when it's uh hey we want to win and you know as much as it's not about winning it is you want to compete yeah you want to feel like you're in the game you're not there it's not a piss take it's like you want to go hard hard as you can respectfully and yeah play and compete and compete yeah 100% yeah so you know that's that that's the way I've been and that's probably you know why I got of guiding the club this way and and that's how I expect I'll always you know it's hard it's hard to turn off once you jump on the field it's like all right I'm just here to muck around so no I can't can't play that way so I don't care if it's social sevens ball or whatever I'm gonna try and hit the ball over that fence I'm gonna try and throw you out from left field at first base if I have to you know it's like oh you're jogging up to first yeah good luck um there was something I saw a couple weeks ago that I really enjoyed um and well I'll be honest with you a little jealous of right is that uh you know we got rained out for our grand final day right yeah and so the whole competition couldn't play the grand final which was uh you know disappointing we can't control the Melbourne weather and then we tried to maneuver things to to move things to different days and it just it wasn't going to work for the whole thing. It was the impossible sort of task and and it didn't work out and then uh so we did all of our presentations and stuff at KP Killer Pi uh which you ran and all of your basic basically all of your people ran your community which was run as best as it possibly could have for the day because it was pissing down frame and I I was sitting there with another one of my club people and I look in and I'm like they're all Sitting there together, hanging out. After everybody pretty much had left. All of your people and your community that were there flogging themselves because they flogged themselves for those four hours.

SPEAKER_05 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Um, to make sure food and all that stuff was out there ready. There were people everywhere during that time. It was hard to get around, maneuver around, but they did a fantastic job for what they had available to them. And after it, you guys are hanging out together, right? When you look at some other clubs in terms of sport, in terms of community in general, that doesn't happen. They do their job and they piss off, you know. And and that's one thing that I I like about the community you've created. Is that and and I'd love to pick your brain about that because I keep asking you, mate, and you can't, you don't give me shit.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

So how do you bring in so you check me on a podcast where you've got a record of it? He's undisciplined. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

You can't run anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

If you can get past Joanne there, good luck. The uh I I want to know how how is it that the club could be so friendly with each other the way you've got it? Like how does it like I said here before, you watch some of the people that you have in your club, in your in your club and you in your community, they all respect and not quite love each other, but there's a a bond there that's very different to other clubs in terms of sport. And I've seen a few different sports, not just softball or baseball, other sports that you have the same issue with. How do you go about building that type of culture where we kind of like we're almost think dumbs?

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Because what I what I've also found was you had people that m were on the move last year.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

A lot of people on the move.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

And they moved to you and your club, and they were automatically part of that committee and helping, and you know, you didn't even have to ask them. They were in, yeah. They dove straight in because they love the culture that you built.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Want to be a part of it. What do you what did you do? What's your secret?

SPEAKER_04 46:06

I think there's a there's a few there's a few pieces here. So we were blessed in quotes, um, that we had a really small base to start with. I think when my family got to the club, we doubled the size of the club.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

That's you know, yeah, yeah, but when you look at it last year, well, how many, how much did you you nearly doubled again? That's what it felt like.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

Yeah, so we went from there was that we went from five teams to 12 teams in in 12 months, six months, you know, in the off season, somehow everyone turned up and we ran we ran some programs we we targeted um schools um who don't necessarily do softball very well because it just teaches that you know it's a special game. Um so we said school kids playing you wanna you want to be good at your school sport, come come here. So that's how that's was how we grew. But how do we get how do we get uh the environment? So again, we were started small, um, which meant that there's not a lot of uh sort of poor culture necessarily that we had to move or change. Yeah, there wasn't if there's five people, it's very it's much easier than going, oh, we've got a hundred people, and now oh we want to we want to change the culture a bit. It's hard. Um, because you've got all those preset stuff that this is how it is, that's how that person is. Um, you know, this is how we deal with things. Uh so yeah, and we're mindful as well of people coming in from other clubs that they're not bringing the same expectation. So we actually not interview interview, we we have a chat, but it might feel like we're interviewing you to be a part of our club. We have a chat. We so say this is how it is here. Um yeah, we don't, if there's problems, these are the people you talk to, you know, here's your coach, here's your these are your committee members. Um, if you don't feel comfortable, there'll be someone in that group you feel comfortable talking to about these things. So the worst thing is letting things fester, right? You see it. You know, plenty of clubs, people are upset about something, but they only talk to two or three people and they've got that echo chamber going. Yeah. And the only people they're talking to are the people who agree with they're not being challenged on their opinion, um, or they're not getting the full picture, not getting all the information. Um, and whatever they miss, you know, if you're gonna fill out information, nine times out of ten, it's bad. League apps are filled with bad things. Um, so that's that's the you know, the influx. So that's how we manage that coming in. We make this there's not a written induction, but I guess it's kind of induction type stuff. Um, yeah, you go HR. You cover when people come into your organization.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Yeah, not quite truth. Not quite.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

That's that's coming from HR. That's it. You got fit in or fuck off. Um yeah, well, we said that we do say that expectation when you come in, right? It's not a it's not as blunt as that, but it's uh well this is how we this is how we operate, and this is how it is. Like if you if you're not happy, if you that doesn't fit what you want, tell us what you want. There's three other clubs at least that you know you'll find you find a space for what for what suits you because as you said, there's there's four big associations and they all operate differently. And yeah. So again, we're not we're not burdened with a great deal of history. Anyone historically that's been there is gone. Like there's there's not too many people break COVID. Um it's still there. They've all they've all moved on, they've all gone somewhere else. Yeah. Um, good or bad. Like I don't even know them. So I can't say, oh, thank God we haven't got that person anymore. I just don't know. Uh so yeah, and then it's just the organic building. Oh, this is this is what we want their culture to be. Oh, this has happened. Well, how do we want that? How do we want to handle that? You know, do we want this problem ongoing or you know, it's really addressing things that come up along the way and yeah, make sure we have those conversations when they they do arise.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

Yeah, okay. And so if we if we were to send out a message to anybody looking for a a community, what sort of things do you think? And I know that it's individualized, yeah, but what sort of things are we looking for in a community, do you think?

SPEAKER_04 50:47

So we're looking for uh volunteer uh attitude in that. So we're not a big funded sport, but volunteers make that run. All communities are all communities, and the more the more the merrier, the less we have to burden one person with a lot of a lot of tasks, the better, because people burn out, people people leave, you go find somewhere else that they just they just can play or they can just do whatever you want. So volunteering, volunteering is number one. Um then you've got your people coming in, know that they are in a space where they can they can fail without you know repercussion or people being upset with them. They know they can they've got someone they can talk to if they are concerned about stuff. Um ideally someone in leadership there. Um, so those would be those would be some of the big things if you're you're coming in for sure.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Yeah, yeah. And it's more of a and and then it's really what I've found with community is if we've got a safe space where we can uh feel like we can contribute to the um the community, not just be a bystander of the community, but where I can can uh contribute my personal stuff, then uh then we find a place where we actually feel like we belong. And ultimately, that's what communities are. We are creating a place that where we're using one thing or two things that we um that we all share in common, and then we're coming together. Um, I literally have this a friend of ours that uh is can you believe this? I I know it's off my chairman when she said it to me. She's like, Oh yeah, I'm involved in this knitting community. Knitting? She's like, Yeah, there's over 3,000 people worldwide on it. Like, what the hell are you talking about? Like knitting, right? But she's like, all we do is talk about knitting and we have different conversations, some of them video, and then if somebody goes overseas, they'll go and visit each other and meet each other in person. It's really great. I'm like, that's amazing, right? But we're taking this one thing that we all have in common. Uh, a lot of sport people are more about competing at something, or they like the actual sport. Softball's not that, it's definitely not that. That's not why they're there for they're not there for the softball. For the majority of people are not actually there for the softball, they're there for the community. And so, um, unless they go to the next tier of softball, that's a bit different. But um, softball people just want to be there for softball. Like, there is one club that it's involved in our competition. I reckon they've been playing for 50 odd years, mate. They've been around forever. But you know what? When you watch them, they'll go and play. Yeah, they're they're still competitive at the level that they play in, and and you can see some some of them still got that little white line fever, but some, yeah. Okay. Hey, I'm being nice to you, mate. Um then what they do every single week that they play is they do the club thing. They go over to the bar, they buy food, they buy drinks, they sit down, they drink and and be merry together. You you can't fault that, yeah, right. And that is a community within a community. So there are so many different tiers to it, right? Yep. And uh, and when we're talking about mental health, find a community, right? It's it's really not that hard if you if you can go through the things that you enjoy. What do I enjoy about a community, right? And then how do I contribute to it? It's simple. Then you just got to reach out. That's I guess that's the artist part is reaching out. Once you reach out, um hopefully it's not like your experience, Justin, where you waited a year. Um, but I know that the uh ice hockey is a little bit like that too, recently, too, um, with uh with some of the people I know that are involved in that. Um, the communications aren't great. If the communications aren't great, is this the right community for you? Right. Because if you're expecting something back, which you should 100%, unless there's tech issues, maybe find somewhere else, right? But this is the screening process, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:59

You know, and when you look at a lot of people get involved in a community, a sporting community, it's either for their kids or for something that they want to play because they played it when they were younger and they like that community. And most of the time they, if they stay, they stay for a long time. And it's not so much about the sport anymore, it's about the people that are around them. I mean, we we know people are part of our sporting community that have been there since we were kids and their kids no longer play, they've moved interstate, but they're still there, and it almost becomes part of their identity and their belonging, and like that is now their community, that is what they enjoy. So, and they only have a small role now, but they continue to do it.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

100%, 100%. Um, anything you want to add, Justin, to that you wanted to leave us on?

SPEAKER_04 55:47

Sorry, I was just just on what Joe said. So that is you're right, the number of you know, 60, 70 plus year olds that still find a way to contribute. I mean, they're not necessarily on the field anymore. Um, but that that's a really like just watching my parents getting older um and seeing my dad, and he's incredibly active, but he's um yeah, he just hit 80 and I'm sure he could still kick my ass. Um but my mum didn't sort of continue with those things in the community, and you can see you can see the difference. Dad's super sharp, you know, mum's struggling a little bit. Yeah, it helps with their mental health, definitely does well and the physical stuff too. Absolutely. Um, so yeah, on on that, it's it is community, right? They you no longer do the on-field stuff, but you're still in a great environment, you can still um you know think through think through problems, stay active.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

And well, based on your story that you were saying before, Justin, you was a time there where you didn't play, yeah, right? How did you feel when you came back? When I was playing, yeah. So when you weren't playing, you weren't really involved in a game, moved to Melbourne, whatever, and then you find somewhere else. Uh, how did you feel when you reconnected with this sport that you obviously love?

SPEAKER_04 57:10

Oh, the the f the first step, getting on the diamond, you know, hitting the ball, working out, all right, have I beaten off too much here, and or what's the what's the competition? Because they go, Oh, where do you play? And um, so I was like, okay, well, I can roll the ball over, but if this is if this is uh A grade or something like that, I'll get killed. So I don't want to be anywhere near it. Let's see what you've got. And it's funny. The first time um I came came up and uh one of the guys says, Yeah, where do you play? So I've been playing third a bit. He goes, Oh, that's good, you know the positions, that's that's great. So he's talking to me like I never played before. All right, uh we'll see how this goes. And I think I think I made seven outs at third that day. It was like it was just like, oh, this is so good being back. It was a bit slow. I've just been to Pan Packs, like I said, um, playing against incredibly talented people. Um, and this was now club ball. That was uh just a little bit slower. I can see the ball when it's hit at me now, and you know, just making outs, it was good. I said, okay, I'm back. Um, and then this is good. My wife and daughter played in the women's that day as well. So it was yeah, it was good to say, okay, um, you know, I found I found a place, it's still softball, I still love playing.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

Um didn't realise how much you missed it until you came back.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

That's it, yeah, absolutely. Having that, having that break for moving and it was good. Like Jacob was still uh what is he not even four years old. So we had some yeah transition time coming here, yeah, working out where uh kinders are and things like that. Um yeah, my daughter finding working out the city because she had to transfer for uni. Um so it was we we did need that time to settle in and find our way in Melbourne, but having yeah, having that sport was like, okay, now I'm home, you know.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

I found a lot of people that leave this sport, uh leave a sport or a community and then come back. There is a there's a certain uh excitement about them, it's a bit childlike, um, which is beautiful to watch. Um, it's not like tantrum over the top, childlike, but it's this excitement. Um just joy just joy playing. Is it is, and it's not even like some of them don't even play, they just show up and they they just sit around and watch it. I mean, I spoke to a friend of mine who has been out of sport for a little while, coached me a little bit and coached for many years and played at very high levels. And he's like, I I said to him, like, do you reckon we can get you down to help out coach this year? And he's like, Nah, it's not gonna happen. He said, But when do you play it at these grounds? Because they're not far from me. Oh, yeah, we play it these dates. All right, beautiful. Oh, I'll be I'll come out for that one for sure. Well, excellent. Can you talk to the kids? Yeah, yeah, no problems. Then he then I couldn't get off the phone with him because it was just constant stories about how the things that happened in the community that he really enjoyed. And it wasn't he didn't mean it, it's just the way it came out, and it was uh it was beautiful. And then he's like, uh, and then I got to, I didn't even have to ask him. He's like, so how they hitting? I'm like, oh, that didn't you know they need to work on this. Oh, when I come out, I will talk to them about that. So he was like full on engaging it now, right? And it's like beautiful because that there was so cool um from somebody who didn't want any bar of it at all, to going, yeah, all right, we'll talk about this, you know, and he makes it sound like it's a favour to me, but it's not.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:47

And I I agree, it's like everything I've done is there's a bit of selfishness to it as well. It yeah, it gives you that great, you know, feeling I'm doing something that is bigger than me, like I think we've said earlier, and it's it is there's a bit of selfishness, but like you see the benefit of it and you feel good about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

There's a certain ecology in there. If it's good for me, if it's good for others, if it's good for the greater good, then we should be doing it, yeah, for sure. And you know, if you're if you if you are a listener and listening to this and you're experiencing some anxiety or depression or even withdrawal or whatever is going on for you, please find a community where you can uh contribute to because it will be good for you. It will be good for others, and it will be good for the greater good. Uh, and you'll be surprised how less you're gonna need your therapist. I can tell you now. And that's really good because you don't have to pay, right? So a little bit cheaper, I would achieve that.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

So yeah, thank you so much, Justin, for coming out um and having this chat with us. Uh, please, guys, find a community connect. Joanne, as always, thank you. Appreciate it. Um, even though we had some recording issues at the start that were all my fault and um yeah, got flogged for it, but it's okay. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Thanks, Justin. Thanks for coming out.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

No worries. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Take care, guys.