Episode 10 - The Art of Coaching

🏏 Coaching isn’t just about drills, game plans, or teaching skills — it’s about shaping people, building cultures, and creating environments where individuals can thrive.

In this episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Joel Sheldon and Luke Lee Tet dive into the rewarding, and sometimes confronting world of coaching. From junior sport to elite competition, they explore what makes a coach great (and what doesn’t), the role of parents and egos in team dynamics, and why culture is bigger than any one player. Joel shares insights from his cricket coaching journey and business, while Luke reflects on decades of playing and mentoring at the highest levels of softball and baseball. Together, they unpack lessons that reach beyond sport — into leadership, parenting, business, and relationships.

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into:

• What makes a good coach vs. a great coach
• Building team culture that lasts
• Managing egos, parents, and expectations
• Coaching lessons that apply to everyday life

📬lifesbumpsbruises@gmail.com
📲Instagram: @lifesbumpsandbruises
📘Facebook: Life’sBumps and Bruises

🎧 New episodes drop every Tuesday — let’s normalise the conversation, one real chat at a time.

Credits:

The Inspiration by Keys of Moon |https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon

Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Life's full of bumps, bruises, and emotional potholes. I'm Joel Sheldon, just a bloke who's battled anxiety and depression. Joined by Luke Latin, the counselor, the covet, and the calm to my chaos. Each week we talk real life, anxiety, overwhelm, family stuff, and those mornings when getting out of bed feels like a win. Plus, level life walking. This is Last Bumps and Bruises. We're glad you're here. Old Mate Joel. Old Mate Joel. How are you? I'm going well. Good on you. I'm excited about it. I'm excited about this episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, I am. Yeah. This is something you and I are both passionate about. Um, and yeah, I don't think we'll be reading off and uh and you know regurgitating statistics and stuff. I think this would be a really good conversation. You know what this one's about? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll get into that in a second. First off, let's just recap last week's show. We spoke about purpose, uh, what it means, and how much of our work and environment shape it, and why sometimes it's okay not to have it all figured out. Luke, you gave us some practical sort of first solutions and steps to take. Uh, I shared a story about booking with a career counsellor, and you unpacked why feeling lost is normal and how values and energy can guide whether you are aligned or drained. Um a couple of little stories for you to begin with, as per usual. Uh, first one, I took my daughter to a playground, and she was going, she's five years old, obviously. She's climbing on the playground. There was a high section with a bit of a wobbly ramp, and it was, you know, there was a drop in between all the gaps that she had to walk across. And and I said to her, uh, take the first step. What are you afraid's going to happen? Um, you know, it's easier to do things after you've already done it. And as I'm saying this to her, I'm sitting here going, Fuck, I'm saying this to myself. I know, I know. As soon as I as soon as I was saying I'm like, just take the first step. Like, what are you afraid's going to happen? Um, like, what's the worst thing that can happen? And I'm underneath her anyway. So if she fell through the gaps, I was going to catch her. And yeah, I just thought, fuck, this is I'm saying this to myself. Um, so she, you know, builds up the courage, she takes the first step, she gets herself across, and then second time around, she's got confidence and gusto, and she whizzes over it, and yeah, it was it was no problem. You know, taking that first step's often difficult, but there was nothing to be feared after she did that, mate.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Good on you, Joel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Insights all over the place, buddy. So that's the first one. Second one was I told you I bought a new golf buggy, electronic golf buggy. I uh had a few beers with the mate around the other day. We were setting it up in the kitchen, and fair to say we got a bit happy and we were testing it out for the first time, and I've driven it straight into the wall, into the kitchen. Put a big dint into the uh into the wall. So um actually Tamika patched this one up. Of course, we don't have any Burgess flat wire to touch it up, but at least the hole's been filled. So, this is where I want to get into the episode now. I have a I've had I've been a cricket coach for the best part of a decade. I've got a business called dynamic cricket coaching. I'm a sole trader, much as you are. Um, so check that out. It's a shameless plug, but check that out on Instagram and Facebook. I know, Luke, you can talk to this, but you've been heavily involved in softball. You and I have both been mentors. You are a mentor to me. I mentor some other people, including kids and young adults and that. And today I thought we could talk about the art of coaching. So I'm interested to get into that with you. Um, first off, can you maybe tell the listeners a little bit about your background? Um, because we do share some similarities for um you know high-end sport. You've obviously played at the top level. I haven't, I've played premier cricket, but tell us a little bit about your journey and and your background in coaching, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Well, for me, uh I got in I didn't have a choice but to get involved in softball. Um, my family played it, um, and as soon as I was old enough to play, uh, there was a glove in my hand. Um, I actually played cricket once. Um back then. Back then, I and I I was just once. Um I was maybe 10, 11, and uh I remember my auntie cracking his shit at me. Don't go play that, you're gonna play softball. Um like okay, cool, all right then. So that was cricket over as a junior. Um but uh I loved it. I loved the game. The um it taught me a lot. Cricket or softball? Softball, yeah, yeah. Um and I love cricket too. Uh and I ended up playing cricket when I was an adult. But um I you know, I played cricket, I played softball at a very young age, then um tried out for a Victorian team. Uh I think it was maybe 12. Yeah, I think it was 12. Got cut and I remember it was the first time I'd ever really been cut from something. And me and my cousin Scotty, we just trained oh like every day. I reckon I was like I I I was a pitcher and I hit a little bit and I reckon I um I reckon I was throwing maybe somewhere between two and three hundred pitches a day, uh, every single day. Uh and I remember I was even throwing on Christmas Day, Boxing Day.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Um no days off.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

No days off. I and but I loved it. It wasn't work, I loved it. And then the next year I remember the coach at the time flogged me at trials. Oh my god, never ever have I ever done as much running as I did in those six weeks. And I remember cracking it because they back then they didn't send out letters, they told you on the spot, they cut you on the spot. Yeah, you're out. Um and uh I'm like I crack it with him. So I'm 13, I'm yelling at the coach, the head coach of the Victorian team. Um, like, you didn't give me an opportunity to show off the skills. I feel like you're gonna cut me, all this sort of stuff, and I'm losing manana. And he laughs and walks away, and then that just drove me to the next level. And the assistant coach of the time, his name was Richard, he comes in and grabs a hold of me, sits me down, and goes, Luke, just calm down. All I did was bloody run for six fucking weeks. The fuck? And he goes, Why do you reckon that is? And I go, no fucking idea. You guys are bastards. And he's like, No, it's because you're probably already picked anyway. Yeah, you know, you're probably our second best pitcher in a team right now behind a guy named Maddie. And uh and he's like, We just needed you fitter. Oh sweet. Felt so much better. Um so then I ended up playing for Victoria for a long time. Yeah, uh, won two national championships um with probably one of the best teams. Um one of the best teams that were around at the time. Um we had some superstar players that I was that I got a chance to play with. Um then um and and made some really good friends, lifetime friends, uh, through the game. Got an opportunity to play in America, um, which was really cool. Learned so much over there. It was uh a very massive eye-opener for me. Uh, because I was sort of sort of caught up in my own bubble here in Australia. Uh and then uh and then I played for Australia um and again played with a team that just broke records, right? I mean, there was one dude I think um Maddie uh Maddie White, if you're listening, um massive plug for you, man. Um he I think he broke four records, man, at world championship level. And I think don't quote me on this, but I think they still stand now. So yeah, and we win the world championship, get the gold medal, all that sort of stuff. Uh and uh and then I kind of switched to baseball, uh, coached, I'd I'd been coaching junior uh softball uh since I was about 15. Uh and I remember at the same time uh we started our own open men's team and I was coaching that as well, player coach um at 15. So that was interesting. Made super, super huge mistakes as a 15-year-old, let me tell you. Oh my god. Uh but I was I was bred to kill. Like the the coaches I had up to that point was like, you don't step off that field until they're dead or the old school generation, bro. Let me tell you water is weakness. I I had this one coach, um and I won't give his name because those that listening, you know who I'm talking about. He was of the he was so um activator-like, right? And and he he would get you to believe that you could run through a brick wall, and then you'd do it, and you would you would not quit until you ran through that brick wall. And his his kind of philosophy was we're gonna kick the shit out of him on a field, and then we're gonna drag him to the car park and kick the shit out of him in the car park, right? Um, and that's kind of the the um what was instilled in me was just kill, kill everybody, um which worked for me to a degree. Um probably uh probably wasn't the greatest. And then I started to coach a little bit, fell out of love with the game for a little bit, blew my knee out. Um, and then a friend of mine got me back involved in coaching, coaching Victorian teams, and they were girls' teams, let me tell you, that was very interesting, coaching girls. Yep, um, not that it was a me problem. Um, my approach to coaching girls was like I was coaching them like they were boys, yeah. And it obviously doesn't work with the same energy levels because you're gonna step on toes, especially with parents.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Uh, and I yeah, that was a a massive learning curve for me. Um, yeah, and then up until just recently, been coaching um the junior boys in Victorian teams, club level, and all that sort of stuff. Yep. So I've done I've done a lot of coaching.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah, interesting. So my journey, I played representative level junior cricket. I was I I was a good cricketer without being outstanding, but a bit like you, I loved it. And so all the training and the hard work, it didn't feel like training. I I I loved going to training. Um, I was actually a wicket keeper until I was about 16, and then there was a kid that was always better than me. Um, I'm not gonna shout out his name, but he uh and I he was taking my spot in all the rep teams, so then I turned my hand to being an off-spin bowler, which is weird to go from a wicket keeper to an off-spinner. And then two years later, I captained him in what they called the Coca-Cola Cup, which was this state championships. Um, and then I became an off-spin bowler and I still am now. So it's funny I changed from wicket keeping to off-spin bow because someone else was better than me, but then that ended up being my craft, so yeah, strange direction to go. But we've got to find some way of being in the team. Getting back in, yeah. And then um then I found my way to premier cricket, and then which is obviously the highest standard in Melbourne, Victoria, without playing state cricket. So the premier grades have state cricketers that play within them. Um, if you are the best players, if you're in the best 12 players in Victoria, you would also have a premier team. Um, and I toiled away at the Essential Cricket Club for a few years, and there was someone there that was better than me again, which happens when you're at that sort of pointy end. And then I left and eventually played premier cricket at a team called North Melbourne that then turned into Greenvale, I'm pretty sure, and they've been a rabble ever since they've left Arden Street, but uh and then left premier cricket. Actually, kind of got cut, if I'm being totally honest. I had a um had another run in with just a personality clash with somebody who'd been cut from another team and they were an off-spin bowler and they were better than me again, and then they'd came in and like it's actually this is a funny story. I toiled, toiled. All I ever wanted to do was play first 11 cricket. It was my just about my number one goal in life. I knew I wasn't good enough to play state cricket, but I wanted to play premier cricket. Toiled away as an off-spin bowler, middle order bat. I make a hundred and twenty-four against Fitzroy Doncaster in a second eleven game, um batting at seven, came in at five for fuck all and made 124 as a bowling all-rounder. So that's a that's incredible. Basically, get told on the Tuesday I'm gonna make my debut. Meanwhile, this other guy, who I won't mention his name, had been cut from about four different teams. He was a no, I'm not gonna call him a cancer, that's probably too strong, but he's someone who'd bounced around as a bit of a mercenary. And uh he had been let go from another team, and then his father-in-law, who used to coach the state team. Again, I'm a bit like you. If people are sitting back that follow premier cricket, they're probably gonna join the dots here. His father-in-law was the coach of the team that I was playing at, and so he gets his future son-in-law down on the Thursday, and they tap me on the shoulder and they say, gee, you're a bit stiff, Joel, but we need to go in the direction of this guy because he's better than you, basically. So I was gutted. Um, eventually I end up making my debut. I play, I think, uh somewhere between seven and eleven, first eleven games, and actually perform reasonably well. Um so I was pretty happy with that. Our home ground was at the Junction Oval, which was awesome. Every second week we got to play there, the big scoreboard, and that's where the VIX now play. Uh, and then at the end of the year, that very guy that I was telling you about gets made captain, and him and I butted heads, and he said, I don't want Joel there, and I got asked to leave the club. So that was my premier career done. I didn't want to go to a third club. Um, and then I got an opportunity to be a semi-professional player at local leg level in the Eastern Cricket Association. I did that for three years on Goodcoin at the time, which was terrific, and then got fired from that job. I'm still very close to the president. Um, in fact, I'm back at that club now, funnily enough. Um so yeah, still stayed in contact with them, then went to another team in top grade, top division of the Eastern Cricket Association, the Deep Dean Bears. Shout out to them. And then we won the premiership in my first year, which was uh uh they called it Dunstan Shields so that was awesome. So I've got lifelong friends from there, and then um and then obviously my brother died. So I then um left the game for six years, came out of retirement and came back a couple of years ago and just played for love and have been happy ever since. But I started my business about 10 or 11 years ago because I thought there was a gap in the market and I wanted to mentor kids and help them out, and uh I primarily focus on yeah, any kids between the ages of about eight up until you know you know 30 basically and doing that sort of one-on-one. So you and I have got a little bit in common when it comes to coaching and mentoring. So that's what I want to talk about today. All right, so I'll lead us into unpack that. I'm gonna call this one the art of coaching sport. Now that is a working title that might change by the time this actually goes to air. So let's go with coaching sport, isn't just about teaching skills or running drills, Luke. It's about mindset, getting in the zone, bringing teams together and defining roles so everyone knows what they bring to the group. But what makes a great coach or what what makes a coach great and what can everyday people learn from the art of coaching, whether they're in sport at work or even in their family? I'm interested to unpack with you, um, and this can be conversational, we'll see where it leads. But I want to know your coaching philosophy, what your strengths are, what you've learnt along the journey. I'm sure we've all made mistakes, but let's start to unpack coaching and mentoring.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, wow. Uh yeah, wow. Uh what I learned, I would say, is how to manage parents differently. Uh I'm still not a hundred percent great on that. I don't think I ever really will be. I don't know if anybody ever can be. Um, because there are a lot of different moving parts in with um with parents. Um, like little Johnny should be playing here and little Jimmy shouldn't be, or whatever, right? Yeah. Um but I would say that uh setting expectations for parents and stuff like that, uh, I've done okay at.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Um I find it funny that that's where you went to to start with. I talk about coaching and philosophy, i.e. the athlete, and you've already gone to the parent and not the athlete. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Because the parents are part of the team no matter what. Yep. And that's the way I say it. Parents are part of the team. How do we keep make sure that they uh on board? So then after a training or something like that, or if you're at a tournament and the the the kids are gonna have time with their parents, we want to make that time uh special for them without being detrimental to their week or their tournament or their whatever. Uh, we want to make sure that the parents are on board with everything we're doing. Um, and and I think that they are a factor in success and failure in a big, big way. Whether the parent wants to admit that or not. I know a lot of I know of a lot of parents that like to blame coaches for things that have unfolded, and there is a level of that that is a coach's issue, but there is also a level of that that's like, well, how did you help that or how did you uh impact that success or failure? Um so yeah, parents are a big, big deal when you're coaching juniors, massive, and you have to make sure you give them time. The moment that you separate them too far and you push them too far away, is when all the shit starts. That's what I found.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

What about um tell me about your coaching philosophy? Have you got a coaching philosophy that you can um condense down into I think what did Jerry Maguire call it in his movie, a mission statement? Have you got like a mission statement or a coaching philosophy? I I do. Have you got one? What's yours? So mine is when I'm coaching kids, I am trying to build them towards repetition under fatigue and pressure. So if you can repeat your skills under fatigue and pressure, then that's gonna stand you in good stead. Come the game. So in our trainings and anything we're trying to do, that's what we're trying to do. Repeat under fatigue and pressure. What's what's yours?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I had a couple. Yep. The the number one thing that I have is and uh kind of built this with my my mate who's no longer here, Graham. G. Is that G? Yeah, old G man.

unknown 18:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Um was we're not building ball players, we're building people.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Ooh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Um and and that was a big deal for us. Uh you know, we took over a a team that um or a bunch of kids that didn't quite uh reach their potential at that point, finishing second last or last or whatever it was that they were finishing. And we were once we treated the players in this way, we scored more runs and gave up less runs than the three years combined that they had played before we took over. So I think uh collectively across the three years they had scored maybe 60, 70 runs at national tournament. We scored 125, 126 in one year. Yeah, um, and then vice versa with the the um runs against was a lot lower. Um and that's across 10 games, 11 games. So it's quite significant. The other one is when I'm coaching, I'm not looking about long term, I'm looking about how do I have an impact with this player right now. How does this player get a level of success out of the thing that they're doing right now? Um and and I and that's why I can do probably my best coaching while they're playing. So I'll coach them while they're hitting. Yeah. In at about one pitch, boom, I want to make an adjustment right now. Yeah, make this adjustment, we get the hit. Um, that's the way I look at it. I don't look at it um yeah. It's a when how do I bring in the people bit? How do I take them from the winning ideology and go after whatever it is that I want to go after, the championship, the tournament, or whatever it is, and how do I transition that into my life as well? And then whenever we talk to the kids, especially over the last probably three, four years, the coaching groups that we've had, we've always focused on hey guys, it's no different to what it's like in your life when you're going to school or whatever it is, or when you got a friendship, we do it this way. It's the same way, right? Um, and and I try and bring the two together. And then how do I make an impact right now? I don't look at it like how do we make an impact when we go to the tournament? It's like, no, if we can get this one little thing, not big thing, but one small thing, and it might be just a hitter, right, that lands with their front foot open instead of closed, which pulls the whole front side of the body off the ball. But if I can land closed, that's the difference between hitting the ball over the top of the infield and hitting a cheap ground ball or missing the ball. So, how do I make that one small impact right now? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, it does. So then leads me on to like let's talk about mindset and getting into the zone as they talk about this mythical place, um, the role of rituals, routines, self-talk, the difference between confidence and arrogance in coaching, like and how can you as a coach model composure under pressure? Like when you when you are coaching players in mindset or um in mental attitude, how are you going about it? What are you looking for? Like, how do you go about that?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Mindset's an interesting thing because it's individualized. Yep. Collectively, we can have a goal and a purpose in mind. Uh for me, uh, I like to make sure my players understand uh what it is that they can deliver today. Yeah, knowing that tomorrow will be different. Um, yeah, we we generally get three, four at bats. Max per game, so how do I get the best out of that? How do I put the percentages in my favor? Um, with uh mindset, it's more about what what I can do now rather than what I can't do. Um, how do I focus on the positive? Okay, I made an error, right? Where did it go wrong? And when I talk to when I coach kids, I always talk to them about um starting from the feet, starting from the ground up, so so you can break it down in real simple format. Um, hitting, I I broke hitting down into nine keys, um, which has served most of the players that I've coached really well, so they can feel and know where that change needs to be. So now we're looking at things from a technical standpoint for that one thing, and okay, cool, that's where I went wrong. Practice it real quickly in between pitches. Okay, sweet, we're in. Um when I think about mindset, I f I found this really interesting. Um I was able to work with a professional baseball team here in a country, in in Australia, yeah. Um, and watching them in the workshop we did was really interesting because they um were so overly professional, right? And and they needed to be. But there was none of that, and they're all men, right? But there's none of that um childlike essence about when they put the uniform on and when they wear wear the uniform and when they get out on the field. There's that energy, that excitement around it. You're saying they don't have it. They didn't have it, right? Okay. And so then when we uh so then we did a couple of activities that literally are very, very young uh activities, right? Little kid activities, then they start to come out. And then some of the things that they were bringing up around their game and how that they they struggle with their mental um approaches to what they were doing was that they they were they were looking at strikes to hit, not pitches to hit. So we can refine it down even further. So, like it let's just say hitter, you know, there's like five, six different types of pitches that a pitcher will throw to you. What's that one pitch that I can hit? And I focus on that one thing, right? Instead of focusing on the winning is the ultimate arching goal that we want to do, but what is the one thing that I need to focus on to contribute to that team? And that's the process, and that's the process. Like, what is the one thing that I need to focus on? Yeah, so I try and keep players in that perspective. Just what's that one thing? Hey, you know what? You hit this pitch really well, go after that one. I don't care if it's a ball. I don't worry about don't umpire, just hit, right? Go after that one pitch.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

So that's strength-based coaching, which you and I obviously, by the sounds of it, do. It's like I don't care what you can't do. You do this one thing well, that's what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

And that's where you'll contribute. Yeah, and you'll feel really good about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah. Well, people generally want to do things that they're good at, right? Like, you know, I'm naturally okay at golf, I'm naturally okay at cricket, um, but I'm pretty shit at tennis, so I don't play a lot of tennis. Like, yeah, you people want to do things that they're good at. I think that's fair. Um, so then tell me about like how are you preparing your players for emotional regulation and trying to get into the zone if they're nervous or whatever else it might be. Like, I've got my sort of take on it, but I want to hear some of yours.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I had an uh an interesting experience with a with a young player that uh felt really sick from anxiety. Okay, couldn't walk on a field.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

And this poor kid, he had worked so hard to go to this thing, this tournament, and he uh he just couldn't get out on a field. He literally had a sick bag and everything. He never threw up. Um but yeah, he was he was in all sorts of way. So he sat him out for two games in on that day. The next day comes, and I'm like, listen to me. I get that you're scared. He's like, Yep, I am. I said, but you're not sick. He goes, No. What I want you to do is I want you to walk on a field anyway. And he goes, but I don't know if I can. What you're gonna do is he goes, what if I'm I know, what do you say? He goes, uh what if I throw up, then you throw up on a field. Yeah, and and and he's like, I don't know if I could do that. Cool, then don't, but you're going out there, right? So I kind of need to be that pushing driving force for him. So literally had to walk him out to his position, right? This is at a national level. Had to walk him out to his position and then leave him there after the first innings, he was all good, right? But it was just getting him into that point. Um, so for me, um regulation is a big key to everything. I think getting in the zone is more about routines than it is about anything else.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Uh when we are in routines, we switch the brain on to go and run its automatic program for the thing we're about to do. So we have an automatic program for tying up our shoelaces. We have an automatic program for doing up a zipper on our pants or brushing our teeth or washing our body. You'll you'll do everything in the exact same way. And when you don't do it, like let's just say it's brushing your teeth and you go you do it in the same way each time. When you don't do it the same way, something feels off. You're like, well, what's going on here? While you're brushing your teeth, and you're like, what's going on here? Oh, and then the brain reconnects itself, and then you'll brush your teeth again, right? And start the whole process again to fulfill that strategy, right? So uh routines are very important, you know. People call it superstition.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah, no, I don't. I agree with you, it's it's routine. Yeah, because it's it's you're comfortable with the familiarity of it, right? And I I'm big on that one as well. So, yeah, so my process for that is if it was a grand final or a semi-final when people are normally shitting themselves and we've got to try harder and be bigger and better and more, I would try to keep the process very much the same. Arrive at the ground the same time, eat the same stuff the night before the game, get the same amount of sleep. If I normally have two beers before a game on a Friday night, well then I'd do that. Like I'd just try to keep that the same. The other one that I think worked really well for us from a team point of view was I tried to do a reframing technique, I guess it would be where we would replace, hey, we're not nervous, we're excited. And I reckon that worked really well. Like it's like, yeah, it's a semi-final or a grand final in places where you should be nervous, but you could be both.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Okay you could be excited because you're there, but you could be nervous because this is a something I'm about to do, something that's very important to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, but if again, if you're going from a positive mindset, so well, what happens when I'm nervous? Well, I'm normally sharper focused, I normally care a bit more about the okay, great. Like what a what a great thing to do because you're not nervous at training.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

I think where we differ, yeah, sorry to interrupt you, you're not, is if we were in a grand final or a semi-final, whatever, I'm asking the players to get there earlier.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

You are? Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Did to give them an opportunity to slowly work their way back in. Um, allow them to move around the ballpark for a little bit, um, tell jokes, hang out, just just be human again and then put the uniform on, yeah, and then do your thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah. See, that's that's a little bit interesting because a part of our process that I have implemented is we have a what's actually mine, but we've got a portable speaker that we take into the change rooms. And a part of our process, we do like, we call it, well, I call it, I labelled it, bag drops and bum taps. So when you first get there, it's get around the group, bag to drop your bag down, bum tap. Um, and then it might be standing at the oval kick in the footy and talking shit. And then when we head back inside to get change, we've got music playing. And a part of our process is like sing-along karaoke type thing where different players select different songs. And yeah, if you want to fucking sing Pearl Jam at the top of your voice, then you do that. But that is a part of our process to relax the energy, so we wouldn't need to get there any earlier. But it's like, well, that that is the energy release, and that is the hey, we're all still in this together, and this is a normal game, and this is what we enjoy doing, and this works for us. And then by the time you get that, it's okay, cool, we're out there into the warm-up. But that that's what I found really relaxes us and um keeps us both in the moment and a and a sense of unity and team spirit, I guess you will, which probably leads me to my next point. Culture. So I'm interested to know about your take on culture. Obviously, team culture doesn't happen by accident, um, or and good cultures. Sometimes it's hard to put your finger on what makes a good culture and what doesn't. I'm a bit like well, I don't know if I'm a bit like you, but I do think there are processes and steps that you can take to end up with the outcome of good culture. So I'm interested to know like what are some ways that coaches can build a real sense of team and not just a group of individuals and how you've handled a dynamic in a locker room to be able to bring people along for the ride and build up, you know, a big buzzword, which is culture. What does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

What does it mean to me? Uh I don't like blocking people from being who they are.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Let people be human.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah, just let them be themselves. Yeah. Uh however, what I would say is when we are putting the uniform on, this is who we are, this is what we stand for, this is how we go about it. Um, I'm involved, I was involved with a team recently that has separated from that the things that they were known for in the past. Right. And so the success levels aren't quite consistent the way that they were before. Yeah. And I think that the when they can get to their version of what they were before, they don't have to be exactly the way they were, but but their version of it, then I uh that I think the success will start to be a bit more consistent. Um so what do we stand for? Because if I don't have something that we stand for, uh then um the who who are we showing up for? Yeah, who am I showing up to be? I like to take kids through, especially young people. I like to take them through the history of the uniform or about the wear.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Um who stood before you. Uh I even get some of those people in to talk to the teams. Um, I've had some superstar people come and talk to the teams. Uh dudes that have won ridiculous amounts of rings and championships. Um, just at Hall of Famers. I get them in. These are the guys that wore the uniform before you talk about what it was like, talk to them about what it meant to you. Um and so that that way they can get a different uh take on what it means, instead of them just making it up themselves, right? So that way they can follow on from the rich history of the uniform we're about to wear. Whether that is club level or state level, it doesn't matter. Um, that's that's what I like to do. I like to make sure that we are connected to something much bigger than my idea of the uniform. Because for some kids, they may not have worn it before. Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah, I I think that's different. I like sorry, I think that's interesting. I I would come from it from a different point of view. Uh to me, I don't think I'm just thinking out loud, but I don't think the history matters much to me in the moment. It's a matter of the group of players we've got at the moment, that is our team and that is our culture. So how I would go about that is I would ask questions um and I would go back to them and to the players and say, right, like what do you think a good team would do in this moment? Like, like who do you who do we want to be? And they would list certain things, and then you know, when they're not adhering to those standards, it's not me barking and yelling and saying you need to do this. It's like, hey, these were your ideations. I'm just keeping you on check with what you said you wanted.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, but that's accountability, that's not culture.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

But I think that's how you build culture.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

If enough people do inside culture, yeah, but that's not necessarily how you build culture. So if I if I if we have to make up the idea of who we are going to be, then that takes away from the uniform itself. We're not just representing ourselves and our family, we're representing the people that have worn this uniform before, that have bled for it, that have loved and cried for it. It's much bigger than the game. This is who we are as a club, this is who we are as a state or whatever it is, right? Um, like a like Victorians, right? We we get picked on for being Mexican because we're south of the border, right? It's very very good, right? Yeah, cool. So, what does a Mexican look like to us? Yeah, right? But and uh, and that history and our version of living up to that history is so important to me, it's so important for for the development of the player because it's like I don't just belong to this one team, I'm bigger, it's much bigger than that. Okay, right, and and that is the culture. We are representing this club, this uniform. I'm not just representing myself. And as soon as players start to only think about uh themselves in it and they don't look at the bigger picture, their consistency drops significantly because they're kicking their own ass most of the time. They're not thinking about, hey, I'm doing this for my brother, then I'm standing right beside. Whether I like you or not, I don't care. When we wear this uniform, we're brothers. I've been in teams where we've hated each other and still one. Because when we put the uniform on, we understand that we're brothers no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah, well, there's heaps of sporting teams where like the Adelaide Crows are famously known. I think it was Tyson Edwards and Andrew McLeod, two very good players. Andrew McLeod's a Brownlow medalist, but um, those two played in premiership winning teams in the mid-90s, and they just did they didn't even talk. They get on the field, do their job, and they hated each other, but it didn't stop them doing what they needed to do on the field. They they both still had a shared common goal and a respect for the bigger picture with it, you know, while still hating each other. Um, I wouldn't think that would be uncommon. And you you would know this better than most, but you don't need to be best friends with everyone in your team. In fact, you're not going to be, so don't fucking try to be. You're gonna have your clicks and stuff, but there needs to be an over are we all moving towards the same thing? Are we all cool with what the the overarching game plan is or philosophy or what we're moving together? You talk about the train leaving the station, it's like are we all on the train or are we not?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Um which leads me to Yeah, but you just remember that when you talk about culture and you represent a club or a state or whatever it is you represent, there's already a culture. Why change it to just suit 12 dudes? Right? It's okay. How do we incorporate that into who we are now? It doesn't mean you'll have to completely live up to every aspect of that culture, but how do I take that culture into this team? And how do we do our version of that culture? That's an important aspect. Don't reinvent the wheel. You came to this club for what? If you only came to that club for money, then you're not gonna give shit anyway, right? But if you went to that club because there's uh there's something about this club that I wanted to be involved and be a part of, then that's different. Now it's like, okay, well, then I went there for that, so now I'm gonna live up to that, and and I want to utilize some of that in me because I match it. When whenever I play for cash, uh I did, I put enormous amounts of pressure on myself to live up to the dollar value that I was receiving, right? Uh and and sometimes that worked out and sometimes it didn't, but there was no emotional connection to it, which is why we didn't win. But as soon as I uh the the best times I've ever had is when it didn't get paid, right? When you roll up to a team or a club and it's like, okay, this is who we are, right? And it might take a couple of tries to find the place that you belong in, but then it becomes another surrogate family. And that that to me is a culture that I wanted to be a part of. Yeah. That means the culture's already set. What do I need to set it? Just utilize that culture into who we are now as a group. That's the way I say it.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Not to get off topic because it is about coaching, but my I've got two daughters, I'll be putting them into team sport because of what it teaches you in life. Absolutely. Disappointment, failure. There'll be no fucking participation medals in in my family. I hope that I hope they're moving away. I think that I don't want to get too controversial, but I think that sort of woke attitude hopefully is slightly getting phased back out again because I think we probably went too far the other way. But um, yeah, to be a part of a team, to have to work with people that you're not best friends with, which happens in a workplace, right? It's not too dissimilar. I think it sets you up really well for life. Yep. Absolutely. No doubt about that. All right. I um want to talk about what do I want to talk about? I want to talk about actually I'd like you to talk about managing egos and balancing star players with role players. Um, have you had to deal with that? Were you the ego? Like which, you know, can you how would you handle that? Like we've got, I I don't exactly know the best way, and I don't sort of have to do it, but we've got some professional players that play with us. One of them's represented his country in the World Cup that's just gone by, albeit for a smaller comp uh country in Papua New Guinea. But um I find that he's such a good player that he finds it hard to relate to the common man because a lot of people can't do what he can do, which is what I remind him. I say you can't get frustrated with people that aren't as talented as you. Um, so how do you balance, I guess, the star player versus the role player?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

I'll look at it this way with what you just said with that example. I'll be going to Old Mate and I'll be saying, Well, if you're that frustrated, how do you develop that that person to do what you do?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

But not all star players can coach, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

It doesn't matter, they've got something they can offer to go offer it. Sometimes, sometimes, like uh in my experience, that star player can offer a belonging that that uh my I my position in this team is not going to be questioned because you accept me, and then that player goes and does its thing, right? They go and do their thing and it's all good, and then then the uh outcomes are so much better. But as soon as that star player becomes like what you're saying and gets a little frustrated, we don't need them to coach them. I need them to give them those small little bits, those little things that'll that'll impact their game right now that they haven't thought of before, right? And it could be something very, very small and minute. That's okay, right? Because that's where that player's base level is, so good. What was your question again? Uh egos. So I I would say that I've been the ego. Yeah, absolutely. Hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Could you be reined back into line and be seen to be a part of the greater good and the you know the sum of the parts, if you will?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

How did how did how did the good coaches handle that with you when you were the ego?

SPEAKER_01 40:45

It was all respect. Yep. All comes down to respect. Yeah. How do I respect them? And what do they give me? Do they give me just the sport or they give me something greater than that? And that's what we're saying about culture, right? Do they give me something more than that? Which is the the the best coaches I've ever had gave me things that you would never get on a sporting field because it gave them to me outside of the sporting field, and the sport facilitated that. Why do we play sport, right? And that's the question you've got to ask yourself. Why do you play sport? I play because I like compete. Yeah, well, like you said, stop with the participation medals then.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Because I'm either competing or I'm not. Uh compete. Uh, I want to belong to something bigger than me. Yep. I want to have another family, I want to have friends, I want to have these types of relationships where uh no matter what happens, they've got my back and it's all good. Yeah, so that's a belonging thing. Yeah, that's why we play sport. So, are you gonna have egos in that? 100%. How do you manage them? Um I I like like I like the accountability factor. I can tell you now that as a junior player in a senior team with one of the best players the country's had, did I rip the shit out of him? Right? Because, and I get that as a junior player, we're not always gonna have the courage to do that, but I'll tell you now, at that point I didn't give a fuck. Right? Don't forget you're telling us this is who we should be. When are you gonna live up to that? You walk around like you own the joint. How about you notice the people that are asking for time with you? You can't just be, and this is what I like about the ego factor, it's like you're not just here to be the best you possibly can be. That's one aspect. Now that you're there, how about you learn how to be a champion? And champions don't walk around and disregard and disrespect people, they go around and they shake hands, they give people time because sometimes those kids, those people, especially young kids, with an adult player or an older player, they want to be next to them, they want to be called by association, so give them that time, right? Uh egotistical, I reckon their consistency is up and down, it spikes. Uh, you'll also find with uh ego, nobody will be harder on them than themselves. They are for logging themselves, right? And when we working with ego, we have to make sure we come to them in a um uh a humanistic way, right? I've got to touch the soul in some way because their guard is so strong. I've got to touch their goal in some way. Now you have to understand that the egos come out, protective factors, of course, but on top of that, it worked. So you know, we're talking about um automatic programs before. This is one automatic program that the player is running. It worked for them and they just hit play, right? And then the game's over, hit stop, then they hit play again, right? And then it worked with the with a relationship. So it carried on and went outside the game. Right. I played with this dude one time and he was white line fever. Oh my God. You did not want to play against this guy. Be playing with him was amazing. Right. He would push so hard to the point where the opposition team are ready to fight you because they don't like the way he goes about his business. Shit, we won.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Right. So I don't know. I don't know if there's any one way of handling ego, but I believe that when we come to them with their person as a person and not just as an athlete, it changes the game. Because we remember, we're as a coach, we're trying to build respect in our players that where they respect us and we respect them. It's not all I'm in control because I'm the head coach. It's more how do I build the respect in the player to then influence them to influence the team?

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Well, that's I've got a there's a video online. If you haven't seen this, I highly recommend as coaches you reach out and watch this one. I think it's called The Importance of the First Follower. And it's about a guy dancing psychotically on a hill by himself. And at the start, this guy's a complete outcast and he looks weird, and people are making fun at him. And after some time, he just keeps going about his business, right? He's at a festival on a hill, right? After some time, and one other person goes over there and starts dancing with him, and then the next thing you know, another one goes. And by the time the third person had got there, then all of a sudden, everyone that was standing on a hill was like, okay, it's safe to go now. And everyone swarmed in. And from this one person and the first follower, and then basically after that, they'd created a movement. So I think it's so important that if you just have a coach or a captain or whoever it is that is just doing everything and they are telling players you haven't got a movement, you haven't got a following. It is so important to then have those two, three people under you that then say, Hey, listen, if you don't follow us, you are actually now in the minority. It is actually it is actually more cool for you to come with us than to be left behind. Do you do you think that's relevant? Do you think that's important? What's your take on that? Influences, obviously. Influences, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Very, very important influence. Uh, what influence do I want to have my team? If you're the egotistical player, that is they're generally I I break teams up into three tiers. You've got the high achievers, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

The they they work hard, but it comes a lot more naturally to them. They are very well aware of their game and they they go about their business. Um, and they're the sort of dudes you want to leave alone, right? Um let them go do their thing. Yeah, you you want to leave the door open for them to have chats because a lot of the things that are happening on the sporting field are a consequence of what's happened in their life. And so the ups and downs of life is actually getting played out on the field. So the slumps are being played out on the field. The middle tier, and I'll go to the next one. The lowest tier, the bottom tier players, um, they want to feel like they belong to the team. They don't want to feel disconnected. So we need to make sure that the top tier are allowing them to feel connected. And that's where the biggest, because the bottom tier is is still working out their way, right? They're still they're still trying to find their way into the starting team, right? They're generally bench sitters, they come in and out, they have very small minute roles. Fringe. Fringe players, probably the best way of looking at it. Yeah, so the middle tier have the biggest role, the biggest role because they connect the top tier and the bottom tier, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah, the conduit. I've spoken about that, so I'll just pause you there. We had in our team, we had some older guys like myself, I'd be considered old in that group, 39. We had someone else who was 48, and then one or two other people I think that were in their 30s. Then we had a lot of young kids. I'm talking 17, 18, 19, 20. But there was like one person who was like 22, who was the older brother of one of the younger players, but he was old enough to be respected by all the younger players, and he was old enough to also be um have a lot in common with the older guys, i.e., myself, we found him easy much easier to talk to and relative than the really younger kids. But he tied the young and the old in so well together that that that kind of play was so important. It was a conduit between the old and the young, and it meshed everybody. You lose that, you lose the connection between the young and the old. Yeah, absolutely. And it creates a gap.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Yeah, absolutely. The middle tier, uh, they're generally more quiet performers, but what they do is much more valuable off the field because they connect the bottom and the top tier. Yeah, um, and that not enough time is given to those players in general, they're given more to the the top tier players, get it most of the time, um, because they're the the match winners, yeah. Right? Without realizing, and I'll tell you this story, uh, a really good friend of mine. Well, we were playing in an open men's team, I would have been maybe 17, 18 at the time, and and I can tell you that this happens so often that this guy didn't get a hit all year, not one safe hit. He may have had two walks, so he struck out most of the time, right? Poor guy. And we get to uh a preliminary final to get into the grand final, and it's we got what we got, run on three, two down, you know, the whole scenario, right? The end of the game, right? This kid most likely gonna strike out you're expecting you, right? And before he went out there, and I'm like, Dave, it doesn't matter. Of course it matters, nah, it doesn't. I don't care. You just go and have your hacks, man. Go and have a shot at it. Have your hacks, right? Yeah, yeah. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, it doesn't matter, man. Just go and do your thing. Um, and and he gets in the battle's box and it's like foul ball, foul ball, foul ball, ball, ball. So he's on full count, foul ball, foul ball, foul ball. And he's the deciding factor in us winning. Bloops one over top of second base we win. Right? Yeah, how often do you he was the bottom tier player? So how often do you see the bottom tier player hold the rest of your season in their hand or the rest of the tournament in their hand all the time? So if you don't give them time, then uh forget it. You're probably not gonna win. If you don't give the middle tier the most time, who's giving their time to the bottom tier? Given that they are the connector, who is giving that to them? Coaches have only got so much time, right? So if I influence my middle tier, they'll influence both tiers organically.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

So so I would suggest you give more time to that middle tier.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah, that makes sense. Let me just quickly talk about like the human side of coaching. So great coaches know when to push and when to protect. I'm interested to know your thoughts and what separates a good coach from a great one. Is it knowledge or is it something else? And do you consider yourself a great coach?

SPEAKER_01 51:17

No, no, I wouldn't consider, I don't think no way. I I'm pr I'm pretty tough on myself as a coach, um, which doesn't always come out, not everybody sees that, but uh, I will tell you now that the truth is I kick my own ass pretty hard as a coach.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

What are your deficiencies as a coach?

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Um expectations I expect too much. Okay, um that would be my go-to. Uh I would say um what makes a great coach coach is relatable. Um coach gives me something more than just a sport. If I'm already playing at this level, it's because I'm good enough to play at this level. Um what is it that you can give me to assist me with that? It's not always game focused stuff, it's not always technical. Um when I need the technical stuff, I'm gonna I'm gonna lean on you. Which is why when I coach teams, I make sure I've got very, very good assistant coaches because they pick up the slack in the areas I don't have. I make sure that I select coaches that can fill those gaps.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

So you're delegating your weaknesses to other people that are gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

I don't even delegate, I don't need to. Yeah. Because we all just know. Okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, so uh and and a coach that um a coach that makes me feel welcome, coach that makes me feel connected to something bigger than just the team, I think are very important factors.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

I think just on that, I think one of the most important things a coach needs to be able to do is be a great storyteller. Do you buy into that? No. That's interesting. No, I don't care about your stories. Storyteller. Okay, tell me about a story. So not like once upon a time, but can you can you paint a picture of a journey and sell me the idea? Whether it's a storyteller or a great salesman, whatever it might be, but I need to be able to you need to be able to feel like you are a part of something that you feel like you're on the right track, whatever that might be. I think you've got to be a good storyteller or salesman, whatever you want to. But I like storyteller. I think great coaches are good storytellers.

unknown 53:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Uh I think they are too, but personally, it's more about the story you tell yourself and how do I work with that story rather than painting a picture? Because the picture could be too big for an individual.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Do you know what I mean? Well, then that leads to the next point. How do you go about defining roles for each player? And why do you think why do you think defining roles is important to players? Like, I know why I think they are, but what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Well, it just gives them an avenue to work on. Yeah, this is the one thing that I need to make sure I get done.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Um, but the the challenge is that uh how often do you see a player have this one role and then want to be in a different role? Right, because they think they should, and then you have the influences around them saying the same bloody thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah, but you spoke before you said there were three tiers of players, there was the top tier, the what we call them, the fringe players and the middle tier. So I would say this is my philosophy, but there are star players and role players, and obviously role players can become star players, like that can happen. So well, that's the idea, right? Well, I think so, but that's what you're talking about. But I've got a thing where it's like know your role, accept your role, and perform your role. And you you don't have to fucking like that Joel Sheldon, the coach, thinks you're a role player when you think you're a star player. It's okay, great. Well, then how do you go over that? Exactly. Go out and become a star and you how do you go over that? How do I go about that? Yeah. How do I go about uh assigning roles? Assigning roles? Yeah. Uh so I think that I would work out who do I want to be batting and bowling most of the time. You talk about putting the percentages in your favour. I want to design and structure a team so in my perception of my skill set, the best players are doing as much as possible and then fill in the gaps, as you would say. So, you know, your star bowlers are going to take the new ball. Well, okay, the overseas. They're just structure up, but then how do you get the player to understand that? Well, I would tell them. In fact, I would out I would outline it in the I'm going to do this, but I would outline it in the preseason, the squad or the first 11 squad, whoever the team that you are coaching is, I would actually put everyone's name up there and then their defined roles within that, right? And what they're responsible for. And and everyone's name would be this. So I could see you, you could see me. And one of your defined roles might be to bring music. You're involved in music. One of your defined roles might be you need to put out cones. Like I know that's sort of low-level sort of stuff, but then it's about, well, who are the accumulator, who are the attacking batsmen, who's going to be there at the death, you know, so that when these situations arise, you are pre-primed to go, hey, this is probably coming up to my role. I'm probably going to get called on soon here. So that's how I would sort of do it. And I'm trying to do that from a strengths-based point of view. Well, you're already good at that. That's why I'm getting you to do that. But asking you to do something I don't think you can do. And most people accept that, and then they want that. People want to do what they're good at, right? So I'm already finding out what does Luke do well. I'm trying to get you to do more of it. Yeah, how do you find that out? By watching.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

So that means you're telling. Interesting. You just turned your head like a dog does. That means you're telling the player. No, I think it's more collaborative than that. But that's what I'm asking you. How do you go about it? How do you have that conversation with the individual, mate? How would I have the I mean be more specific? No, it's not how do you go how do you go about having a conversation with the individual about their role? One-on-one. Okay, that's great. Thank you for breaking that down from a fundamental standpoint. So, how do you do the conversation, Joel? How do you approach it? What do you say?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

I would say based on your strengths from what I can see, and having known you over this preseason, here's what I think you are good at, and here's how I think we can utilize your strengths within a team environment to in order for us to make more.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

So you're telling them. You're not asking them. Hey, where do you see yourself in your streets?

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Yeah, okay, well, then in that instance, I probably am telling them.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

But that is that is a skill of a coach to be able to No, I reckon the biggest skill is about ascertaining what the player wants. Don't forget, you're playing club cricket. What what does the player want? And how do we facilitate that inside what the team needs and what we establish together as strengths? This is what tell me what, and this would be a question that I ask. Tell me what you think your strengths are in in terms of technical. This is how you go about your game. They give me that, and I go, okay, cool. This is what I think too, because I agree with this, this, and this, but I would add this. And then okay, cool. Where do you reckon that fits in with the the lineup? Okay, well, I think it fits in here. Okay, cool. So let's break down the lineup. This is what each player does in a lineup. This is these are the roles of that player. Uh, where do you think you fit now? Oh, I fit. I think I fit here. Okay, cool. So I agree or I disagree. I think you might be one level down, or I think you I agree, you're this is right, but you're right on. Perfect. Okay, now what do we need to do to make sure you stay there? That's what I would do. It's coaching. I'm not telling nobody nothing. Right? If if if you're a pitcher as an example, or a bowler, that's pretty self-explanatory. Yeah, right. You can see that from a mile away, but the the middle tier player doesn't always know that, and the bottom tier players absolutely don't know that. Yeah, so then how do I make sure and when I do that conversation, they feel good about themselves because they are contributing. And I'm not telling and they feel valued, I'm not telling nobody nothing. Yeah, I'm giving you my opinion based on what you're saying, and there is a hundred percent crossover, and I love that, I love that bit, and then I then I coach them through where do you feel like you fit? I'm not telling nobody nothing. Nothing. Okay, where do you think what sort of things do you think we need to do training-wise to make sure you stay there? Okay, I I think we should do this. Cool, beautiful. I agree, but I would also add this, right? Because I think that technically, this is the part that I'm that I do as the coach, technically, to develop that, these are the sort of drills we would need to do, these are sort of approaches that we would need to take. Cool, do that, let's do that. But I'm not telling nobody nothing. When we go out onto the field and we're doing a group thing, that's different. I'm directing, yeah. Yo, let's go. I'm I'm traffic cop shit. I got white gloves and all the shit. I'm like, yo, let's go. Yeah. But individually, when I talk about that, you are involved. I'm not telling you nothing. You tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

And I want to facilitate your development the way you see it, not the way I see it. I can give a shit about what I see. It doesn't matter. They don't care. They couldn't care what you think. They care about what they think. So now how do I develop that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

That's the way I go about it. I don't tell nobody nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Yeah, that's interesting. So I think the timeline's a little bit different for me because I'm probably already having these chats organically leading up to now I've got enough information, here's how I think all the all the pieces of the puzzle fit. And then in a presentation to the entire group, we're already a pretty tight group anyway, you can have these open discussions. Well, I don't want to be there, I want to be here. Well, here's why I think it is, but it's it's collaborative at that point. So although I said it's one on one, it's one on one leading into it, and then it's the here's what I think, and then it's okay, well, here's now we came to this conclusion. But by the time we left that room, I think we're all the same page.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Yeah, but like I said, like I said, when we're talking about one-on-one stuff, right? Because you're talking bigger now. Yeah, when we're talking about one-on-one stuff, it's about where they're at. Yeah, how do you coach somebody when you don't know where they're at and you're in full control? That's not it's not buying. Now I'm molding you the way I want you in the best interest of this team, instead of looking at how do I mold you the way you want to be molded and where you feel like you want to develop. That's the idea. That's the difference between coaching juniors. I'm telling you, if you coach, I'll get really fired up at this one. If you coach at any level, don't go coach seniors, go coach juniors because I'm telling you, you're gonna learn that lesson, you're gonna learn it the hard way, right? Excellent. Go do that because that there will put you in good stead for when you go and coach seniors, because when they need you to actually coach them, you're gonna be ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Oh, that's good. What about um I know we're running over time, so we might even cut this out, I'm not sure. But like, how do you think coaching then relates to leadership, parenting, and relationships? Like, do you think that being a coach has made you a better parent? Do you think it's made you a better leader, a better business owner? Always coach your kids, don't coach your partner. That's what I'm saying. Always coach your kids, don't coach your partner. Um something like that. Well, I guess if you kids you already got a certain level of authority, don't you? I think you can always be authority and over your significant other. That's collaborative if you're already at the same level. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

Um, so I can get it right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Oh, just about leadership around parenting and relationship, and uh, does does being a coach make you a better leader, business owner, parent? Not not 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

I would say that you need to assess. You need to assess what it is that I want and what I'm gonna go after. That's good coaching, right? Uh, because I know what it is that I want and I'm gonna go after it, and I've got the drive to do it, right? But uh the idea is when we look at life and transitioning what I do in sport into life, I think it's more about uh who do I need to influence that can influence the outcome, not how do I influence the outcome? How do I bring other people in? Who do I need to bring in to support me? Um because coaches have this habit of going, I can do it, I can do everything. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

But you can't do it all. That is so true, Luke. This is a good time to mention this. I reckon I thought I was a better coach eight years ago than I believe I am now, and I know a lot more now than I did back then. Like the more I learn, the less I feel I know, you know, which is probably wisdom, right? Because I now go, fuck, I don't need to be everything to everybody. Who can I get to do this? Who's better at this than me? What am I good at? Like it's funny I can do this in coaching, but not necessarily, let's not get into that. I'll put my foot in what I was gonna say, obviously, is like it's funny I can do this in coaching, which is a I don't know, a skills reflection on what I'm good at and who can I employ to do other things and who's better at what and what I what am I good at, but I can't seem to do it in life. But I guess that's not true if I'm probably just scared of the bigger life thing than the coaching thing, but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole just now.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

I think that leadership is just influence. So, what is the outcome I want? Who do I need to influence to influence my outcome? Yeah, that's that's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

The other thing too I've found is um you talk about monkeys to monkey too all the time. When I'm talking about again, I'm talking about cricket, but you know, the importance of taking singles to build that up over time because that gives you the one percent and puts percentages in your favour that you're gonna get an extra 40 runs and innings and you're gonna you know hopefully go close to winning the game. And obviously I'm a player as well, still, albeit at club level now. But you know, you I can't talk about all of that and not be trying to do it every single week. Like you need to be a product of your environment, whatever you are coaching, whether it's this is how we go about training, these are the standards, when these are the time we get here, we do this music, we follow this process, we do this. I need to be doing that as well, or else I'm just fucking telling you, I'm just barking orders that people are gonna be. I just think you lose respect. People will lose respect for you and be like, well, this bike doesn't or he doesn't believe what he's saying enough to do it himself. Yeah, for sure, 100%. Okay, Luke, that um that was a fun chat. Thank you for that. No problem, you got passionate, which was good. We butted heads on a few things, but I liked it. I liked it. We're different people, we're gonna have different approaches. But I thought we'd um we'd skip the toolkit this week because I don't know, unless you've got anything that you feel like you need to add. No, we've gone over heaps. Yeah, so do I. Uh, and I reckon let's go to what three things made you happy this week. I know you struggle to come up with these every week, so I'm gonna give you something. Obviously, this is a segment where we pause and reflect on the little things, whether or not it's a small win just to help shift our focus on what's going right rather than what's going wrong. I told you I played cricket, I played cricket again. So we're starting to get in get in some miles under the legs. The um round one will be washed out in two weeks from now. So it normally gets washed out about this time, but yeah, I'm starting to really enjoy my cricket again and um follows on from this coaching sort of message. I've got a presentation that I'll probably need to give coming up soon. Uh, number two, I continue to work on a painting that I'm working on. Obviously, you know that I enjoy doing my artwork and I've been working on a commission for a while. It's a big Keith Richards sort of semi-abstract um portrait, but it's taken a fair bit of time, layer by layer, piece by piece, but we'll get there. I think it'll look good when it's done. And number three, the thing that I am grateful for, the thing that made me happy is we are working towards having real humans on the show as guests, which is great. So um, yeah, so that'll be real stories from everyday people, and we're looking forward to having that one. Um, that might even be the very next show that comes out. Hopefully that all goes well. What about you, mate? What three things made you happy this week?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Uh I don't have three. I'll tell you now. Fair enough. I have a reflection. Are you okay with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Yeah. Always.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Are you sure? Yeah, give me a reflection. So am I in trouble? Uh no. Okay, great. It's got a thing. Not everything's about you, Joe. I knew you'd be so um uh I would say that my reflection right now is that uh given that we're talking about sports coaching and what have you, I'm not coaching as much this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Um for lots of different reasons. What I will say is that I'm very uh interested about the gap that gets filled. All right. So right now I'm not coaching as much this year, I'm not doing a state team or anything like that. And which left me with about four days, maybe five days a week of nothing. Right? Those four or five days are now full of work-based stuff uh that I've wanted for such a long time. And uh it's just interesting. I did nothing different, right? But it's just interesting how you know the the there's a gap there and it gets filled with something, right? I did nothing different. How did it get filled? Yeah, I'll put the intention out there for sure. And I've been um I've been doing the things I need to do to try and make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

Are you saying a time gap? Like there's a time gap in the middle of the year.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

Like I said, right now there's there's like I said, four or five days uh a week of no coaching that I would be filling up with coaching time. And we're talking two to three hours a day, maybe more, uh, of coaching and then the preparation stuff around it and all the phone calls and all that sort of stuff that goes around making those types of things happen. They're not there now. And all of a sudden, everything started to fall into place in a different way from uh a counselling and a and a learning perspective that would not have happened if I didn't step away.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

So it's it's just I I find that I'm very grateful for it because I'm I'm not sure how it all works, but it worked out um the way I I really wanted it in the end anyway, um, which is really cool. So uh my suggestion is that and this is the reflection bit, right? Is what is it there that you uh don't want to do anymore that you're holding on to, that you would rather be doing this other thing that that um that you can let go of to allow yourself to do the thing that you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

So what can you let go of to create some more space for the thing you want to do actually value, the thing that you want to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

That's good. It man and it's never not been true for me. And I think that I forget it. Um so that that's my reflection. I don't have three things, but that that's my reflection.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

I like it, mate. If you want to replace what three things with a reflection, you do you. I I will. I don't need your fucking permission, Joel. Don't you worry. Shut up. Um thank you. Thank you for the permission, Joel. I appreciate it. You're welcome. I'd actually like to hear if if you are still listening at this point or if you've switched off 45 minutes ago, I get that. But for the coaches out there or the people dealing in sport, I'd like to know what people's philosophies are on coaching, how they go about it, what they think they're good at, what struggles they deal with. Um, feel free to reach out to us at lifespumpsbruises at gmail.com or at Instagram at LifeSBumps and Bruises Facebook under the same name. But I've been thinking I might even get TikTok at some point. Let's just get them all out there. I think you can go viral on TikTok, but I uh haven't gotten around to it yet. Uh but other than that, if you are keen to share this episode with a mate who might need it, hopefully you found that content interesting. And one final thing, again, if you are still listening, I would love it if you leave a review. Uh reviews help us get to the top of the analytics tree and help get to more eyeballs and might find someone that actually needs it. So I know whenever I listen to podcasts and people say leave a review and I'm in the car, I'm like, I'm probably not gonna do that. But it'd be great if you could. That would be terrific, even if it's a bad one. Tell us what we're doing, shit. Tell us if Luke's blabbering on too much, or I seem like I'm reading from the laptop, which at times both are true. But um, other than that, thanks for joining us. Uh see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

See you next Tuesday. All right, well, you guys take care. Bye.